[Advaita-l] Litmus tests for self-realization

Rajaram Venkataramani rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Thu Aug 18 04:36:01 CDT 2011

Interestingly, I was just about to ask how does one know he is self -
realized. FIR test is good but how do we know it is not just a neurological
re-wiring? The bank transfer is a good one. It is also in line with
desirelessness and fearlessness. Of course, I am okay to get everything in
to my account because all accounts are one.

On sarvajnatva, what is Kumarila Bhatta's definition of sarvajna?
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Siva Senani Nori <sivasenani at yahoo.com>wrote:

> For self, I thought there was a simpler one, more objective and in tune
> with the present times: Do I treat my bank balance as non-separate from the
> balance in other accounts and therefore transfer it out? After all, sarvam
> khalvidam brahma!
> For others, one ought not to judge. Why? Kumarila Bhatta on Buddhists'
> portrayal of Gautama Buddha as sarvaj~na, and hence the source of their
> dharma, is an useful pointer. His argument goes along the lines of:
> Kumarila: Who says so and so is a sarvaj~na?
> Objector: Some x or y.
> Kumarila: Is this x or y an alpaj~na or a sarvaj~na?
> Objector: Some might be sarvaj~nas; others who say so are indeed alpaj~nas.
> Kumarila: In case of the alpaj~na's statement, we cannot trust it as he
> does not know enough to judge; in the case of sarvaj~na's statement we could
> trust it, if only we had a sure means of establishing his sarvaj~nataa.
> Regards
> N. Siva Senani
> (For those who ask for the source: I heard it from at least two Professors
> and take it to be true and do not know the source. I guess this should be in
> the Slokavarttika, most probably.)
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> >To: adviata-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> >Cc: advaitin at yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:58 AM
> >Subject: [Advaita-l] Litmus tests for self-realization
>  >
> >Is there a litmus test for self realization?
> >
> >Yes, it is true in the presence of a mahatma, that our minds become quiet
> and peaceful, provided we have trained our mind to tune ourselves to that
> peace that pervades in to that presence.  From that point, every mahatma is
> realized soul and if mind is not peaceful in that presence it is not that we
> judge that the mahatma is not realized but that our minds are not in tune or
> perturbed. Then is that a litmus test for realization of a mahatma or litmus
> test for our own purity of our minds? It appears to be more of the later
> than the former.
> >
> >Then how exactly I know I have realized given the fact the realization is
> not discrete event in time.  Krishna’s description of sthitaprajna is the
> clear statement – prajahaati yadaa kaamaan sarvaan partha manogataan,
> aatmanyeva aatmaana tushTaH.. All desire (self-centered desires that this
> brings me happiness and that brings me suffering etc) are gone from the mind
> and one who revels in himself by himself – is the realized person. This
> happens slowly due to slow process of purification of the mind – hence the
> scriptures say – nidhidhyasana important.
> >
> >In terms of litmus test for realization – the best explanation was
> provided by Swami Paramaarthanandaji – which he calls as FIR reduction As
> the mind gets purified, the metal peaces that transcends understanding sink
> in – in that very process I am getting more and more established in the
> understanding that the happiness that I am longing for is not external to me
> and it is myself – that is aham brahma asmi – that knowledge slowly sinks
> in. As I get more and more established, the frequency, F, of disturbance
> from that state decreases.  That is the first litmus test. The second is,
> even if I momentarily gets disturbed due to habitual slips of the mind, the
> intensity of disturbance, I, also becomes less and less severe. Because of
> this fact, the R, the recovery from that disturbed state also becomes fast.
> Or one can say the reduction R in time for the recovery.  These three litmus
> tests one can see in ourselves as we get firmly established in
> >that understanding and perhaps others also can see that we do not get
> disturbed that easily.
> >
> >Hence is there a litmus test for realization – yes one can say as FIR
> reduction. This one can evaluate oneself – and should not be used to
> evaluate the others, unless one knows norm based on which these reductions
> can be quantified.
> >
> >Hari Om!
> >Sadananda
> >
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