[Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?
padmanabhan_ananth at hotmail.com
Wed Nov 24 12:39:04 CST 2010
Agreed that the Chaitanyam end-state goal of a mumukshu and is the 'advaitic' state where the 'observer-observation-observed' all collapse together in to a non-dual state that is 'Brahman'. This is where the Subject fuses with the predicate and object as one Blissful state.
The examples of the bee-honey, human-iddli&chutney are all stages that one has to cross over to reach this ultimate state. As Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi has stated in his 'Naan Yaar (Who Am I?)' , all the material used to understand the 'SELF' have to be given up , or rather go away, at the ultimate 'Self Realization' and he uses the example of the 'pinamchudu thadi' (the stick that is used to make sure that the body is fully cremated to ashes by the person at the graveyard who manages the cremation, finally throws the stick also in to the fire to become ashes!).
For every mumukshu, the paths to Realization vary (as the scriptures portray) and some unique paths are also possible. Even Iddli-Chutney-Flour example could trigger a mumukshu to understand the unitary State. It is all driven by the Ultimate GRACE that makes itself understood and reached. Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi realized HIS SELF from his own strange experience of 'simulated death' and subsequent enquiry within HIMSELF that resolved the mystery to reach HIMSELF.
> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:17:41 +0530
> From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:47 AM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ishwara* *knows nirguna brahman and its exstence as Himself, jIvA and
> > jagat.
> > He is also infinitely blissful. His devotees experience this bliss (as
> > visuddha sattva does not obstruct). There are infinite attributes and
> > experiences through karma, yoga and bhakti. Each one of these and the
> > experience of jnana is also known to Ishwara (Lord Krishna says that there
> > is nothing hire than jnana. So he must know that experience also). When a
> > jIvA realizes Ishwara, he can get any or all of these experiences because
> > Ishwara favours His devotees with sarsti etc. A jIvA who is attracted to
> > Ishwara with the intention of becoming absolutely one with Him might
> > consider that goal is achieved at some stage. But in reality, does he reach
> > the same state as Vishnu of omniscience and omnipotence? Or does he get
> > tricked in to a state by Vishnu that he thinks there is no Vishnu, jagat
> > etc.? One who likes idli will eat it with chutney but not want to become
> > flour.
> Vedanta does not present Brahman as a bhogya vastu, an object that is to be
> experienced/enjoyed. Any bhogya vastu is inert. When a man is said to have
> people as bhogya is not experiencing the chaitanya but only the body, mind,
> etc. which all are prakRti and inert. On the other hand Vedanta teaches
> that the aspirant is none other than Brahman. Brahman is taught as
> 'vijnAnam Anandam Brahma'. Brahman IS Bliss. The Upanishads do not say
> 'Brahman experiences Bliss'. Such a propostion would make Brahman a
> something/someone different from Bliss and the Bliss itself an inert
> object. The Upanishad also teaches 'He who realizes Brahman is Brahman',
> 'You are That', 'I am Brahman', etc. Such a realization does not
> *require*the Knower to 'experience' the Bliss
> *of *Brahman, for, as stated earlier, Brahman IS Bliss; Brahman is not the
> 'experiencer' of Bliss. Since the one who realizes Brahman IS Brahman, the
> question of 'experiencing' (as a transitive verb) Brahman/Bliss is simply
> not there at all in the Vedantic moksha. The analogies of sugar-taster of
> sugar, Idli-chutney and the eater thereof, etc. do not have any relevance in
> the *final stages *of Vedanta sadhana, realization and moksha. All the
> vibhutis of Brahman that a devotee might find enjoyable/blissful are also
> inert alone. Even 'persons/gods' named as vibhutis of Brahman are
> essentially Chaitanyam, none other than that Brahman but their name/form
> belong to prakRti. The teaching of Vibhuti-s and their adoration is a
> stepping stone for the final culmination of transcending even this stage and
> realizing the identity with Brahman, free of all manifestations
> (vibhuti-s). This is because, the experiencer/adorer of these vibhuti-s is
> a someone with the instruments/apparatus with which alone this adoration is
> possible. This apparatus is taught to be prakRti, not the essential
> chaitanyam which alone is this adorer in truth.
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