[Advaita-l] (no subject)

Tanushree Bagrodia tanushree.bagrodia at gmail.com
Sun Mar 28 09:03:18 CDT 2010

Dear Mr. Anbu Sivam,

This is a post which I am writing after reading the email trail for the last
week on the forms of Guru, and what needs to be done to “save” Hinduism from

To begin with, I am not crystal clear as to the definition of secular
intended in the emails. If it is separation of religion and state that is
secularism and that is attacking Hinduism then I am perplexed, as you
yourself mention that the politicians are using temples as cash cows. In
such a situation, secularism as separation of the state and religion will
only be beneficial.

If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of other religions attacking
Hinduism then all  I would say is that Advaita Vedanta teaches us (or at
least that is my understanding) that there is one Brahman as the one
infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent, transcendent reality. If indeed there is
only one Brahman, then whichever way an individual decides to attain jnana
and remove the difference between the jiva-atman and Brahman, the goal is
ultimately to realize the Brahman. So when it is only the means of reaching
the end goal different, how can one way bring disaster on the other, unless
those deciding to take one path interfere in the decision of the others? The
disaster strikes when followers of one path start to believe that everyone
else is wrong and forcefully try to change the beliefs of all others. Those
who are steadfast on their decision and understand that each individual has
his/her own decided path (such are the ones I call secular) do not disturb
the peace of the others or let themselves be affected by the path of other
groups. Hinduism as referred to today is a phrase that was popularized by
the English language to denote the Vedic, religious and philosophical
traditions of India. It is in fact Sanatan Dharma that we all are referring
to as Hinduism. Sanatan Dharma comprises of spiritual laws that govern human
existence, and the same can be found in the varied scriptures. However,
beneath the umbrella of Sanatan Dharma there are a number of other currents
that have been formed which are now acknowledged as varied forms of
Hinduism. However, whichever branch of Hinduism we refer to, at the end of
it, all of it culminates into Sanatan Dharma. This means that Sanatan Dharma
itself allows for varied paths to be followed and is indifferent to the
decision of the path taken to attain the absolute truth.

If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of non-sampradaya spiritual
leaders, I would tend to think that those blessed with the benefit of having
a Guru with roots in a tradition have it in them to educate the others of
the true Sanatan Dharma. In none of these three cases do I see the need of
another distinctive set of “kshtriyas” required to save dharma. At the end
of the day if each one of us follows the principles of sanatan dharma,
imparts our own learning to the interested individuals around us, we will be
filling the vacuum that is created automatically albeit slowly. At the same
time, pro-actively, we will empower the person we are sharing the knowledge
with to be able to further discuss this without any doubt and give
confidence. Hence our own learning and understanding can help propagate the
right form and slowly fill the void created.

If we were to make the right efforts, all of us can be the kshtriyas
required and help propagate the true form of dharma.

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:50:29 -0400
From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Guru - yoga -jnana
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
       <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
       <f65008471003221650i3e2c001dx2601c15dea53d634 at mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear Vidyasankarji,

"What better way to fight the "guru proliferation" as you call it (and
the secularism that you hold responsible for it) than to hold on to
the traditional concept of Guru?"

This is a myopic view.  It shows you care little for the disaster that
secularism has brought to Hinduism over centuries, on the plea you are
holding on to the traditional view.  This is really burying one's head in
the sand.

"Why don't we all just gather the
courage to say, "this is our tradition, we will privilege it and preserve
it to the best of our ability"? Everything else will follow naturally."

Great!  I like the declaration!  However I do not understand the last
sentence viz. "Everything else will follow naturally."  Can you be more
specific?  I can only think that the consequences are that we would
increasingly be attacked and we may have to attack back one time or another
just as Swamy Vidyaranya did.  That is my understanding of human reaction.

"Suffice it to say that a traditional
individual can live without problems in a nation that is secular in its

This is not a fact.  Were it a fact I and others would not have raised it.
I wish to remind you of the difference between the secular laws made by man
and the dhaarmic laws which |I hope you cherish as you the fondness for the
Vedas.  Human laws are biased, totally adhoc and is suppressive in the end.

I realize that this is not the focus of this list as you might come to lay
it down as the owner/moderator but that is no reason to brush it under the
carpet if the intention is not to escape facing the problem.

"All this talk of traditional institutions and their leadership vis-a-vis
the so-called "pAmara jana" completely overlooks one point. Why
should it be the responsibility of an institution like a SAnkara maTha
to do exactly what the institutions of a proselytizing religion do?"

Mainly because there are this Guru and Ashram proliferations occuring to
fill the gap that is causing havoc to the Hindus.  Many of us are crying out
loud to the traditional institutions because of our trust in them to come
together and play a more pro-active role instead of vegetating.

"What happened to the responsibility of every individual in society
who does not count himself or herself as part of this "pAmara jana"?"

Sure they have responsibilities.  That is why they beseech to the time
tested traditional institutions to come together and save Sanaathana Dharma
instead of acting like a 'bramin' institution catering to this small varNa
even after they on both sides of the isle have thrown away their
yagnopaveetham (one as a sanyasi and another turning into a vaisya while
trying to talk vedantha for fun).


> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > "As long as these leaders and  the institutions they run are not frauds,
> > and
> > their goals are not anti social, adhArmic, there should be no condemning
> of
> > them.  Leaders, especially with charisma are looked upon by those
> > groups, who indeed form the majority of our society, as those who can
> take
> > them up the spiritual ladder."
> >
> > I completely agree with Subramanianji on this.
> >
> > Swamy Nithyaananda is a blend of Ramakrishna Mission with his own roots
> in
> > Thiruvannamalai and Ramana Maharshi.  He is more of a Hindu than
> > Ramakrishna
> > Mission.  He is no different from Swamy Chinmayananda or Swamy
> > except that he has more native followings.
> >
> > I suspect the hand of Christian Missionaries who are international in
> > character and the ever detracting culprits of adharmic secularists in
> > media,  never ending vishamis of the Dravidian politicians and their
> > constant robbing of properties of peaceful citizens using goondaism and
> > blackmail and so on.  Our Hindu temples are owned and operated by the
> > politicians as their cash cow.  There are no kshathriyas to protect our
> > dharma.  We all have to wake up to this reality while talking
> >
> > Since the advent of secularism the varnasrama dharma has gravely
> weakened.
> > This has not only created confusion on the minds of the janas on their
> > purushaartha but also not provided guidance from Madaadhipathis who were
> > increasingly getting into their shell away from the common folks.  The
> > vacuum got filled by spiritual leaders from non-sampradhaaya traditions
> > many
> > of whom are doing a great job of unifying the Hindus thirsting for
> > spiritual
> > guidance.  Peetaadhipathis like Kanchi Aachaarya also walked into Chery
> to
> > meet with paamara janas in order to stop conversion.  I do not think
> other
> > traditional Achaaryas such as Sringeri Achaarya would venture into such
> > revolutionary act.  Swamy Chinmayananda and Swamy Dhayaananda do not
> belong
> > to Sampradhaaya traditions.  In fact they belonged to the elitist group
> who
> > completely shunned Karma Kaanda but people like Sathya Sai Bhaaba
> > yagnas.
> >
> > But all these non-traditional Swamys are a source of inspiration for the
> > Hindu diaspora abroad who for all practical purposes have given up on
> > varnaasrama dharma.  In some sense they do peddle yoga, thanthra and
> > gnyaana
> > to Hindus of Indian origin and non-Hindus who are dissatisfied with
> > own religion.  In a way they are more rooted in the west.  In India
> > Ramakrishna Mission got attacked by the secularists and so they had to
> say
> > they are their own religion different from mainstream Hindus in order to
> > save themselves from the attack from the secular laws.
> >
> > Thus we should all realize that secularism is the main cause for the
> attack
> > on Hinduism and the only way to protect Hinduism is the revival of the
> > Kshathriyas.  Sri Aurobhindho advocated this but it is yet to be
> fulfilled.
> >
> > Om Sri GurubyO Namaha
> > Anbu

When someone makes a decision,
he is plunging into a rushing torrent
that could lead him to a place
he had never dreamed of going
when he made that decision.

The Alchemist

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