[Advaita-l] Ego, Mind and Body of a Jnani

ramakrishnan sivakumar sivanr8010 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 11 19:18:22 CDT 2010

Pranaam to all members.
As far as the words of Jnanis are concerned we are no were to asses the
validity of it.
They are in a state quite indiscribable and incomprehensible by an anjaani.
There is a story of a frog that got into a well from  sea and trying to
describe the frogs inside the well how wast is the sea.From this story
arises the word *Koopamandookam*
*Mahaathma words has to be understood only after considering the competency
of the hearer,time,place,purpose,etc.which generally not known from the mere
words quoted.*
*Hence all the words of all Mahaathma are true!*
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:03 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> Shri Shankaracharya has set at rest all doubts and disputations that might
> arise / have arisen among seekers regarding this issue:
> Whether or not the ego, mind and body which includes, by default, sense /
> motor organs, exist for a Jnani. While there is incontrovertible evidence
> for this, even for the cursory reader, for example in the Bhagavadgita
> chapter, yet, while deliberating on the topic of the post-enlightenment
> state of a person (now Jnani), in the Brahmasutras, the Bhashyakara has
> to say while commenting on the Sutra 4.1.15:
> // Moreover, it is not a matter for dispute at all whether the body of the
> Knower of Brahman continues to exist for sometime or not. For how can one
> contest the fact of another possessing the knowledge of Brahman " vouched
> for by his heart's conviction " and at the same time continuing with the
> body? This very fact is elaborated in the Upanishads and the SmRtis in the
> course of determining the characteristics of 'the man of steady wisdom'.
> From the above statement we see the Acharya is confirming the presence of
> the Ego, Mind and Body in ONE GO. The sentence that does this is:
> // For how can one contest the fact of another possessing the knowledge of
> Brahman â€" vouched for by his heart’s conviction â€" and at the same
> continuing with the body? //
> 1. For the presence of ego the word the bhashyam gives is: 'his'. In the
> original the word is: 'sva'. SSS has translated this in Kannada as
> This is the word one uses to refer to him'self', her'self', one'self'.
> in these usages, the 'self' is undoubtedly the ego, translated in sanskrit
> as amahkaara.
> 2. For the presence of 'mind' the word the bhashyam gives is: 'heart's'.
> the original the word is: 'hRdaya'. SSS has translated this in Kannada as
> 'hRdayakke'. In order to add emphasis to the fact that it is a realization
> that is available ONLY to that Jnani concerned, SSS adds the word 'maatra'
> in Kannada which restricts the realization to that particular Jnani
> (paricchinna antahkaraNa). The original expression is 'sva-hRdaya' which
> means : one's heart or one's mind. The word HRdayam is given the meaning
> antaHkaraNa, manas, buddhi, etc. to denote the one faculty: mind across
> bhashyam literature. (IshwaraH sarvabhUtAnAm hRddeshe Arjuna tiShThati of
> Gita 18th chapter).
> 3.For the presence of body the word the bhashyam gives is: 'continuing
> the body'. SSS uses the same word of the bhashya 'dehadhAraNa'm in the
> Kannada translation.
> 4. There is an additional component to the presence of the mind in a
> that is crucial in the above bhashya statement: the word 'pratyaya'.
> Pratyaya is 'conviction', a thought, etc. In this context the appropriate
> word is 'conviction'. It is common knowledge that a conviction can and
> exist only in the mind. Atman cannot have any properties of the mind. So,
> the bhashyam word 'heart's conviction' or 'sva-hRdaya-pratyaya' gives
> absolutely no room for any doubt that there is the mind for the Jnani. SSS
> confirms this by the kannada word: 'tiLiyabaruva'. This means: the
> that one 'gets to know, comes to appreciate', etc. Certainly no such
> can be admitted in the Atman.
> The original words of the bhashya to confirm the prsence of ALL THE THREE
> EGO, MIND AND THE BODY to the Jnani in ONE GO: sva-hRdaya-pratyayam
> dehadhAraNam cha.
> Those who belong to the tradition of ShAnkara VedAnta have cherished the
> above sentence of the Acharya as the one where the revered Acharya gives
> expression to HIS OWN REALIZATION, svaanubhava.
> Those outside the tradition of ShAnkara VedAnta who deny the concept of
> Jivanmukti and therefore the possibility of Shankara being a Jnani,
> do not accept that the above sentence is the Acharya's expression of His
> anubhava. In any case, a traditionalfollower of Shankara Vedanta, would
> be able to contradict the fact conveyed by that statement : That none can
> challenge the experience had by the Jnani that he has the
> simultaneously with the knowledge that there is the body continuing.
> In fact Shankara, if one grants is a Jnani, was able to say this
> or rather write this bhashya, only because He had the ego, mind and the
> body. In the absence of these, we would not have had the blessing of
> His Bhashya. There are evidences from His own words in the Gita and
> Taittiriya Bhashya and even the Sutra bhashya where the presence of 'ego'
> Him is expressed by Himself. We shall present those sentences in a
> thread, if occasion arises.
> In no place has the Sarvajna Shankara made the statement in the prasthAna
> traya bhashya that it is ajnanis who posit a body, mind, etc. on a Jnani.
> The above bhashya statement itself is a testimony to that.
> We do not value any Mahatma's statement that contradicts what Shankara has
> said on these matters. All statements of all Mahatmas will be acceptable
> the follower of Shankara-advaita only if they do not contradict Shankara's
> statements, expressed or implied. If they are found to contradict what the
> Acharya has said, they will have to be rejected, as Shankara Himself has
> taught in the Gita Bhashya, as 'asampradAyavit's statements'.
> Om Tat Sat
> subbu
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