[Advaita-l] Knowledge, renunciation and varNASrama rules

Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 14 23:46:16 CDT 2010

Dear Viyasamkarji,
Though born of a brahmin father Vidur had to play the role of a shudra, for the socially acceptable reason, as his mother was dashi to the queens. But let us not ignore the exalted position he held despite having to play the role of a shudra. Kunti lived under his care (in his place). He was considered the incarnation of Dharmaraj (while Yudhisthira was considered Dharma-putra). When Draupadi was being disrobed it was Dharma (ie.none other than Vidur), who at the behest of Shri Krishna, came to the rescue of Draupadi, if we are to interpret the Kuta-slokas properly. Should we then still have doubt about the attainments of Vidur?
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sat, 8/14/10, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Knowledge, renunciation and varNASrama rules
To: "Advaita List" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 12:32 PM

> Namaste Sri Vidyasankara
> Adi Sankara Bhashya 3 1.8
> 'Those whose conduct has been good will quickly attain
> some good birth, the birth of a Brahmana, or a Kshattriya,
> or a Vaisya. But those whose conduct has been evil will
> quickly attain an evil birth, the birth of a dog, or a hog, or
> a Candala..'
> He has made connection between good karma and Dvija janma. Bad conduct
> means nondvija janma. Good conduct means dvija janma. Nondvijas must
> wipe their sin. They can do good karma and get born as dvijas. Then
> they get chance for Sanyasa. How can a non dvija with sin be eligible
> for Sanyasa? If some Matha made non dvija Sanyasis it is very bad
> political pressure in India. The country is ruled by Sudras and
> Mlecchas worse than them. They are looting us.
> Regards
> -Venkatesh

I don't understand where you are going with this. Let me reiterate my points.
This list is for philosophy, not for current political debates.

If there is some previous karmA that will cause a high or a low birth, that will
eventually take its course and cause the high or low birth. Can you point to any
post of mine where I have disputed this?

If there are some samskAras from past karmA that will lead to brahmajnAna
in this birth, even it is in a non-dvija family, those samskAras WILL lead to
brahmajnAna, without having to wait for a future dvija birth. Nor do these
samskAras leading to brahmajnAna nececssarily ensure dvija-hood in the
birth during which brahmajnAna is attained.

That vidura and dharmavyAdha attained jnAna in their SUdra births, without
having to be reborn in a dvija family, stand as lasting examples of what I am
saying above.

The other historical examples that I cited earlier in this thread (Haldipur and
Koviloor Mathas) pertain to non-brAhmaNa saMnyAsa headed institutions that
are centuries old. These were not set up because of political pressures. Please
get your historical facts right first. 


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