[Advaita-l] Waking and Dream States - II

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 31 20:12:54 CDT 2009

Michaelji - PraNAms

Here is my understanding.

Waker is bahiH prajnaH - It is the consciousness 'that I am' identified with local entity (I am avoiding use of the BMI) that becomes conscious of the external objects as Shree Pranipataji pointed out. Since the external objects are perceived through the senses and since senses function and bringing the information about the objects when several other factors such as external light etc are all favorable. Since starting objects and perception of the objects along with external conducive environments -  it is rightly termed as bahiH prajnaH - obviously with reference to the wakers mind that perceives the external world.  

In contrast, the dreamer is creating the dream world in his own mind only - Now looking at the dream world we can say consciousness identified with the dream subject in the dream is conscious of the all the objects not by any external light but light as though from his own consciousness. Hence scripture is calling as taijasa. Here it is the internal to the mind, with reference to the waker's mind. However looking at the mind of the tiny subject in the dream, it is external. The tiny dream subject may need an external light to study a text and he will see it is all dark when all the lights are turned off -All that can be in the dream. Even those lights that are needed for a dream subject is also created by the waker's mind only. In Mantra 4, the discussion is done from the point of the waking mind. But when the next statement of the Upanishad that defines the antaH prajnaH with nineteen gateways and saptaangaH - we are defining with reference to the local
 guy inside the dream. The reference points should be clear.

Not to complicate further, but for as a thought exercise, if that tiny subject in the dream goes to sleep (in the dream) and dreams in his sleep we have a second order dream and gets up from his sleep and attends ManDukya Up. class studying the mantras 3 and 4 in the dream, he will understand that he is a waker and when he went to that (second order) dream, he created himself as a sub-tiny guy; and the perceptions will be inside while as a waker in the dream the perceptions are outside. These illustrate that from what reference these discussions are made have to important. It is the consciousness that I am, identifying with each subject in turn. 

As pranipataji pointed - it is the consciousness, the self, that is identifying with each entity in each reference. However, without the point of reference, there is no bahiH or antaH. 

Hope this is clear.

Hari Om!

--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>

I had forgotten that the term taijasa covers the limited consciousness and concept of this 'dream self'. And I confess to the urge to explain the world in terms of my waking dream !

I guess that it's not unreasonable to question the Lord -- 'Lord, why did You give the jiva three states of consciousness, even four ?' in the hope that the Lord may answer in His own way... :)

More information about the Advaita-l mailing list