[Advaita-l] kUTastha

Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 4 21:36:50 CST 2009

Dear Dr. Bharadwajji,

Shani was retrograding in Visakha and this makes Shani to be in the Vriscchika rashi. Shani in Vriscchika rashi has purna dristi in the opposite house of Vrishabha rashi, where Rohini lies. Shani's effects are felt on the rashi, where  its dristi falls. Thus Shani in Visakha can effect Rohini. I assumed that you have at least some rudimentary knowledge of astrology.

As regartds your mention of 3067 BCE as the date of the Mahabharata war it is not correct as Lord Krishna passed away in 3102 BCE. How then can the war be fought after Lord Krishna was no more in his mortal frame ? Astronomically the war was fought in 3139 BCE. But this cannot be discussed here as the subject is too big  to be discussed in this Advaita forum.


--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Dr D Bharadwaj <drdbharadwaj at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Dr D Bharadwaj <drdbharadwaj at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] kUTastha
To: sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 7:04 PM

Very good point Sunilji
It is really interesting. In Indian JyOtish, the SiddhAnta and HOra   aspects respectively represent the study of the factual, positional computations [akin to astronomy ]  and the study of the effects of various such computed positional combinations.[ akin to astrology ]. In JyOtish, these two different  types of the data are often presented juxtaposed, leaving it to the discerning eye to do the necessary sifting. 

Such mistakes do happen in interpretations and derivations involving vague data.
It is understandable, in this context,  if that the siddhAntis had unanimously chosen pick up a suggestive astrological datum in the absence of any other. But how could they have ignored, that too unanimously, the 'direct' astronomical statement of fact that Saturn was, indeed, in ViSAkhA?! This is too simple and straight, without any subtlety involved.

Also the Saturn in ViSAkhA [a constellation spread across tula and vrscika rASIs ] could not, even astrologically, 'give trouble' to rOhiNI, a constellation in RshaBha rASI. He may be reasonably expected or said to give trouble to a rOhiNIgata graha or a rOhiNInakshatrayuta jAtaka! Even if consrtued that way, the conclusion that Sani could be reckoned to have been in rOhiNI cannot be uncontested.

Please read the following on line write up.  Don't know what to say of the erudite scholar!!! 

The Write Up

Based on the astrological information provided by Veda Vyaasa (Position of the stars etc), Mahabharat war was estimated to have started on 3067B.C. on 22nd November. On the day of the war, the astrological positions of the Sun, Moon, Rahu, Saturn, Guru, Mangala and Sukra planets have been described by Vyaasa. By looking at the position based on Panchangam, Indian Calendar, and matching with the position of the stars described by Vyaas and comparing with the Julian Calendar, one can arrive at the precise dates for the war. Furthermore all other related incidents that took place before and after the war were described in Mahabhaarat, and the dates for these can be precisely matched with the Julian calendar, as discussed bellow. 

Shrii Krishna made a last minute effort to make peace but failed. He left the Upaplaavya city on Kaartiika Shuddha Dvaadasi day in Revati Nakshatra (star) between 7:36 - 8:24AM. He reached Hastinaapura in Bharani Nakshatra, and had discussions with the Kouravaas till Pushyami Nakshatra. The day Duryodhana rejected the peace proposal was Krishna Pancami. Krishna left Hastinaapura, and had consultations with KarNa before he departed. (He revealed to KarNa that he was the eldest son of Kunti) on Uttara Palghuni day. Krishna informed KarNa that Duryodhana must get ready to fight, seventh day from that day, which will be Amaavaasya day (New-moon day) with JyeshTa Nakshatra. Krishna returned to Upaplaavya city on Chitta Nakshatra. Three days after that on Anuradha Nakshatra Balarama came to Upaplaavya. Next Pushya Nakshtra day Pandavaas left with Krishna to Kurukshetra. 

Fifteen days after return from Upaplaavya city, Balarama left on Punarvasu Nakshatra on the tour of sacred places. (Balarama did not want to participate in the war that involved cousins on both sides). He returned to Kurukshetra after forty-two days in the ShravaNa Nakshatra. The war already started eighteen days back. On the nineteenth day, BahuLa Caturdashi day on ShravaNa Nakshatra, Duryodhana died. It was the fifty-ninth day after Amaavaasya with JyeshTaa Nakshatra. 

Krishana returned from Hastinaapura after his unsuccessful peace mission on Uttara Palghuna day. Starting from that day, the seventh day is New-moon day (amaavaasya) with Saturn on Rohini Nakshatra as discussed by Vyaasa. Rahu was approaching the Sun, and the Moon was turning towards Amaavaasya (New-Moon day). 

36 years after the Mahabharat war, Yaadava kula was destroyed. This was predicted by Krishana by astrological happening - "Rahu has compressed Purnima on Chaturdasi day. This happened once before the Mahabharata war and again will be happening soon and this will lead to our destruction". He remembered Gandhari's curse on the Yadava kula. 

Astrologically a strange phenomenon occurred during the Mahabharata war. 

The lunar cycle (paksha - normally is 15 days) sometimes happens in fourteen days. But during the Mahabharata war-time a rare thing happened - the paksha got compressed to 13 days. (May be 13 is a bad number). This aspect has been discussed in the Bhiishma parva - 3rd Adhyaaya. Guru and Shani are in Vaishaaka, Moon and the Sun entered in the same house one after the other making amaavaasya on the Trayodasi day it self . This peculiar condensation of the thithiis into thirteen from fifteen is a rare phenomenon as discussed by Vyaasa in Mahabharat and has inevitably followed by mass destruction due to war. This incident provided a direct means to establish the precise date of Mahabharat war. 

According to Julian calendar this type of planetary collusion occurred definitely in 3076 BC in November. Vyaasa writes: 

Caturdashiim panchadashiim 
Bhuuta puurvamca shoodhashiim 
Imaantu naabhi jaaneham 

Amaavaasyaam trayodashiim 
Chandra suurya bhougrastou 
Ekamevam trayodashiim 
AparvaNi grahaNe tou 
Prajaa sakshapaishyataH|| 

"I have seen fourteen days a paksha, fifteen day completion or extension to sixteenth day also. This amaavaasya falling on the thirteenth day itself I have never seen before" - says Vyasa. That, on the same month Sun and Moon eclipses falling during the missing thitiies is a rare phenomenon, resulting in large-scale disaster to people. 

One month before, in Margashira, during Purvaashhaada Nakshatra, armies of Pandavaas and Kouravaas have assembled on the West and the East sides of the Hiranya river, respectively. The next day was Navaraatri and Durga Puja day. Duryodhana was itching for the war. That evening Duryodhana sends a word with Sekuni's son Ulaka, " We have finished the prayer to the arms and everybody is ready - why there is further delay in starting the war?" The next day, Margashira Shudda Ekadashi day, in KRittika Nakshatra, the war started. Hence, the famous Bhagavad Geeta teaching also started on that day. The war began at 6:30 am. The date according to Julian calendar was 22nd November, 3067B.C. 

Other notable incidences that occurred: 

<li>Bhiishma's death: 
Maagha Shuddha AshTami day in Rohini Nakshtra in the afternoon that 58th day after the war started, Bhiishma died. ( This is the actual death - He actually fell in the war on the 10th day after the war started). 

<li>Sri Krishna's Birth - He was born on 3112B.C. on Friday at 11:40 PM. 
<li>Pandavaas Birth - YudhishTara was born on August 31, 3114BC, Tuesday (Mangala Vaaram) Shudda Panchami JyeshhTaa Nakshatra - He was 696 days elder to Krishna. 

<li>Bhiima was 347 days younger to YudhishTara. - Krishna Trayodashi, Makha Nakshatra, and Arjuana was 303 days younger to Bhiima. Shukla Chaturdashi Soma Vaaram (Monday) Uttara PhalguNi Nakshtra. 
<li>When Pandavaas came to Hastinaapura after the death of their father Pandu, it was 3091BC and YudhishTara was 14years, 9 months and 11days old. 

<li>When he was coranated by Bhiishma as a prince, YudhishTara was 20 years, 1 month and 26 days old. (November, 3094BC). 
<li>They reached Varanasi in PalguNa Shuddha AshTami RohiNi Nakshtra. 
<li>Droupadi's Swayamvaram -in 3091BC, April - to reach the Wax-house it took 10 days for Pandavaas. They stayed there for an year. After the burning of the wax-house, they spent six months in the Shaalihotraa's ashram and seven months in Ekachatra city. 

<li>The second coronation and building of Indraprasta was in November 3091BC, seven months after the marriage. 
<li>Rajasuuya yagna was performed after Arjuna's dig vijaya tour - It took five years and six months for Arjuna. Subhadra's marriage was in April 3084BC. Three months after that was Khadava vana dahanam. 

<li>Abhimanyu was born in 3083BC, February. 
<li>Kaliyugam started in 3105BC, October 13th, Amaavaasya Mangala (Tuesday) JyeshaTa Nakshatra - Kali was born. This was the most inauspicious day. 
<li>The next Pournima day (Full-moon day) was full eclipse of the Moon, October 1, 3104BC. That was the day, when the five grahaas along with moon were in DhanishTaa Nakshatra. 

vDharmajaa's Rajasuuya - Fifteen years before the Mahabharata war was the Rajasuuya yagna of Dharmaja. That day was amaavaasya (new-moon day) JyeshTa Muula nakshtra . YudhishTara shakam started in 3082BC, October 26th . The gambling and the banishment of Pandavaas to forest was in November 3081BC, Margashira shukla-Trayodashi. 

<li>Vanavaasam was 12 years and living incognito was for one year (13 lunar years + 5 lunar months + 12 days or 13 solar years plus 18 days) - Bhiimshma calculates and declares that Dhurodhana's calculations were wrong. 

<li>AJNaata vaasam (living incognito) began in Margashira 3069BC. Arjuna was noticed on Margashira Krishna Navami, 3068BC. 
<li>The Great war began on 3067BC, Friday 22nd November, Margashira shudda ekadashi Nakshatra. 

<li>The war lasted for 18 days. 
<li>Dharmaraju ruled for only 36 years. 
<li>25years later YudhishTara shaka started. (Thursday October 26th). 
<li>Fifteen years after Dharmaja rule started, Dhutaraashtra, Gandhaari, Vidura, Kunti and Sanjaya left for Vaanaprasta (forest living). That year itself Vidura performed praayopavesham. 

<li>Two years after that Dhrutaraashtra, Gandhaari and Kunti got caught in the forest fire and died. 
<li>Sanjaya was only left. 
<li>Shrii Krishna passed away on 3031BC, April 13th Friday. 
<li>Pandavaas Maahaa Prastaanam was in 3031BC, in November. 

<li>These are the dates that matched the Indian astrological description of the stars and the moon, and Julian Calendar predictions. 
<li>There is so much self consistency in all the events and the descriptions that it makes one to wonder. Based on these exact information Mahabhaarat must be Five thousand years Old (from today) as per the historical accounting. 

The analysis is extremely precise and scientific, matching the astrological position of the Indian and the Julian Calendars. 

The beauty and the scientific psychoanalysis of Bhagavad Geeta stand out as monumental contribution by the Mahabharat period to the mankind. Based on the above facts the historicity of Mahabharat cannot be questioned. 

---------------------- end of the exposition-------------------------------------
hatOsmi !!

sarvE bhavanthu sukhinah 
sarvE santhu niraamayaah
sarve bhadrANi pasyanthu 
maa kaschit duhkhabhAg bhavEt.

Dr. D. Bharadwaj
drdbharadwaj at gmail.com

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jaldhar Vyasji,


Yes, being or remaining in the peak (of the mountain) may be  the more appropriate meaning than being on a heap (of trash). Kuta means "Apex".

In Mahabharata we have the Kuta slokas which confuse even the scholars and these Kuta slokas are definitely very intelligently composed verses. For example  Vedavyasa said that at the time of the Mahabharata war that Saturn  was staying in Visakha for one year. This was an astronomical datum. Then Vedavyasa also said that Saturn was giving trouble to Rohini and this is an astrological datum. It is very unfortunate that all astronomers, without exception, discarded the real astronomical datum  and accepted the astrological datum to be the astronomical datum, as they could not interpret Vedavyasa's composition. For their stiudies in dating of the Mahabharata war they took the graha Saturn to be in Rohini in place of Visakha.


Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 3/3/09, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:
From: Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>

Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] kUTastha
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>

Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 9:11 PM

Some interesting responses about the meaning of kUTastha.  While I acknowledge
the Vedantic meaning and I can't really quibble with the English translation
as kUTa can indeed have these various meanings in Sanskrit, from a purely poetic

point of view I still prefer "standing on a mountain"  Standing on a
heap is not so evocative and who the heck stands on an anvil? :-)

-- Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>

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