[Advaita-l] Facts of existence

Dilip Dhopavkar dilip.dhopavkar at gmail.com
Thu Sep 13 01:26:56 CDT 2007


Adwaita does not recognise birth , as commonly understood, . Man is Brahman
, which is unborn and hence deathless. However form the phenomenal point of
view , he is born and dies . So the issue of rebirth  can be discussed only
within the limits of phenomenal existence.

So within these limits, the mind is supposed to retain the sanskaras in the
form of desires. Depending on the intensity of desires, they are transmuted
as trapped energy bundles, which manifest  in some other body. Nowhere there
is a reference that it will be a human birth again. There is no guarantee
that man is reborn as a man. That is the reason why Acharya Sankara, said --
Durlabham Trayamevaitat Devanugrahahettukam, Manushyatvam, Mumukshatvam ,

Here  he means, the human birth is extremely difficult. It is attained
because of desires , which can be fulfilled only in the human body.
Obviously , they are at a higher evolutionary level as compared to an
animal. But if  , in this human birth , if the desires are of very gross
nature , of animal nature, he will be born as an animal. Our sastras ( the
reveale d truths) Transmigration .

The trapped energy bundles, sanskras , lose their identity as man or woman
after death. They are not the sanskaras of a man or of a woman, they are
just sanskaras.

As to your  assertion that animals perform their karmas perfectly , our
sastras say , karma is possible only in a Manushyayoni. All other
yonis(including devayoni) are for bhoga. So in Pashuyoni, no fresh karmas
are created .Once the karmas are worked out , they are reborn as

Dilip Dhopavkar

On 9/12/07, advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org <
advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>   1. The fact of existance (Kris Manian)
>   2. Discussion on "Vidya" (srikanta at nie.ac.in)
>   3. Adi Sankaracharya's Nirguna Manasa Puja (Sriram Krishnamurthy)
>   4. Free will Versus Karma Phala (Vishwanathan Raman)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:25:29 -0800
> From: Kris Manian <krismanian at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] The fact of existance
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID: <46E6EBA9.8070502 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Thanks for the thesis like post on existence. I have a few questions
> especially about cycle of birth-re birth
> ?        Even at death this ?mind? doesn?t get dissolved as other
> components of the body (as long ^^^ its not >empty).Unfortunately, this body
> can not continue to exist that longer to fulfill all these endless desires,
> so the mind >takes another body to get them fulfilled. But, since the
> desires keep growing, this cycle of leaving one body and acquiring >another
> continue(s) endlessly. This is called Birth-Death- Rebirth.
> As per the above, then the desires a man develops can only be completed if
> he is born as a man again and so is the case with women. This means that the
> man/women proportions will remain constant for ever.
> Also, animals and inanimate things like rocks do not have desires and they
> do their karma much more perfectly than humans. So they will not be born
> again or in the worst case they will be born the same species, for example a
> tiger in pursuit of its prey falls and dies, so due to its desire will be
> born again as a tiger or a similar one that eats the same kind of prey. But
> animal lives are totally in the hands of humans as they can destroy or
> selectively multiply animal species, for example growing a whole lot of
> cattles like cows, goats, chickens etc. and killing elephants, tigers for
> game or money.
> The human population keeps growing does not jibe with this theory unless
> we say that the soul with the mind sub divides
> and some desires of man can still be completed as a women, some by animals
> and some by inanimates. Are there indications of this theory in
> shruti/smrithis?
> thanks
> Kris
> ------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:11:35 +0530 (IST)
> From: srikanta at nie.ac.in
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Discussion on "Vidya"
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID: <4644. at mail.nie.ac.in>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> This has reference to Sri.Guy Werling's Email on the terms "Vidya" and
> 'Jnana".Sri.Shankara in his Bhashyas distinguishes between "Vidya" and
> "Jnana".By "Vidya" he means "Upasana",which is still "Dvaita Bhava",where
> the worshipper takes the form of the "Diety" he worships,and by "Jnana" he
> means that which is generated by Sruthi.There is a detail discussion on
> the topic towards the end of the Isavasyopanishad and also in
> Chandogyopanishad.
>                                                       N.Srikanta.
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:52:04 +0530
> From: "Sriram Krishnamurthy" <asksriramjobs at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Adi Sankaracharya's Nirguna Manasa Puja
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID:
>        <3724d9b40709120322h1bf178f6l628eeeb926ca2e7a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> *Adi Sankaracharya's
> Nirguna Manasa Puja*
> Worship of the Attributeless Spirit
> *Translated by Swami Yogananda Sarasvati*
> E-Text Source: Advaita Vedanta
> Library<http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/index.htm>
> The disciple said:
> 1. In the indivisible Satchidananda whose nature is only unconditioned,
> and
> which is also the non-dual state, how is worship prescribed?
> 2. Where is the invocation (avahana) of the Fullness, and the seat (asana)
> of the All-supporting How is there washing of the feet (padya), offering
> of
> water (arghya) and sipping (achamana) for the limpid and Pure One?
> 3. How is there bathing (snana) for the Immaculate, and clothing (vasa)
> for
> the womb of the universe? How is there a sacred thread (upavita) for Him
> who
> is without lineage and caste?
> 4. How is there sandal paste (gandha) for the Unattached, and flowers
> (pushpa) for the Odorless? What is the jewel (bhusha) of the
> Undifferentiated? What ornament (alamkara) for the Formless?
> 5. What use of incense (dhupa) for the Spotless, or of lamps (dipa) for
> the
> Witness of everything? What is here the food-offering (naivedyam) for Him
> who is satiated only with His own bliss?
> 6-7. How does one prepare betel (tambula) for the Rejoicer of the
> universe?
> He whose nature is self-luminous consciousness, that Illuminator of the
> sun
> and other stars, who is sung by `shrutis', how is there for Him the light-
> waving ceremony (nirajana) What circumambulation (pradakshina) for the
> Infinite? What prostration (pranama) for the non-dual Reality?
> 8. For Him who is unknowable by the words of the Vedas, what praise
> (stotra)
> is prescribed? How is there the ceremony of dismissal (udavasana) for Him
> who is established inside and outside?
> The Guru said:
> 9. I worship the symbol of the Self (atmalinga) shining like a jewel and
> situated in the heart-lotus within the city of illusion, with the
> ablutions
> (abhisheka) of the unsullied mind from the river of faith, always, with
> the
> flowers of samadhi, for the sake of non-rebirth.
> 10. `I am the One, the Ultimate'. Thus one should invoke (avahayet) Lord
> Siva. Then one should prepare the seat (asana) , that is thinking of the
> self-established Self.
> 11. `I have no contact with the dust of virtue and sin.' Thus should the
> wise one offer washing of the fet (padya), that is such knowledge
> destroying
> all sins.
> 12. One should pour forth tha handful of water which is the root-
> ignorance
> held from time without beginning. This is verily the water- offering
> (arghya) of the symbol of the Self.
> 13. `Indra and other beings drink only the tiny fraction of a drop from
> the
> waves of the bliss ocean of Brahman.' That meditation is considered as the
> sipping (achamana).
> 14. `All the worlds are bathed verily by the water of Brahma's bliss which
> is indivisible.' That meditation is the ablution (abhishechana) of the
> Self.
> 15. `I am the light of Consciousness without any veil'. This thinking is
> the
> holy cloth (sad vastram) of the symbol of the Self. Thus should think the
> wise one.
> 16. `I am the thread of the garland of all the worlds which are in the
> nature of the three gunas'. This conviction is verily considered here as
> the
> highest sacred thread (upavIta).
> 17. `This manifold world mingled with numerous impressions is supported by
> me, and by no other'. This meditation is the sandal paste (chandana) of
> the
> Self.
> 18. With the sesamum-flowers in the form of renunciation of the activity
> of
> sattva, rajas, and tamas, one should always worship (yajet) the symbol of
> the Self, for attaing liberation while living.
> 19. With the non-dual Bel leaves devoid of the triple distinction between
> the Lord, the guru, and the Self, one should worship (yajet) Lord Siva
> that
> is symbol of the Self.
> 20. One should think of His incense (dhupa) as the giving up of all
> impressions. The wise one should show the lamp (dipa) that is the
> realization of the luminous Self.
> 21. The food-offering (naivedyam) of the symbol of the Self is the big
> rice
> pudding known as the egg-universe of Brahma. Do drink the sweet nectar of
> bliss that is the delightful beverage (upasechana) of Mrityu or Lord Siva.
> 22. One should remember that cleansing the remnants of ignorance with the
> water of knowledge, is the washing of hands (hasta prakshalana) of the
> pure
> symbol of the Self.
> 23. Giving up the use of the objects of passion, this is the chewing of
> betel (tambula) of Lord Siva, the supreme Self who is devoid of the
> attributes beginning with passion.
> 24. Knowledge on one's own nature of Brahman, most shining, and burning to
> destruction the darkness of ignorance, that is here the waving of lights
> (nirajana) of the Self.
> 25. The vision of the manifold Brahman is the ornament (alamkritam) with
> garlands. Then one should remember the vision of the all- blissful nature
> of
> the Self, as the handful of flowers. (pushpanjali).
> 26. `Thousands of Brahma's mundane eggs revolve in me, the Lord, whose
> nature is immovable and steady like a heap.' This meditation is the
> circumambulation (pradakshina).
> 27. `I am verily worthy of a universal salutation. Apart from my true
> Self,
> none is so worthy of salutation.' This reflection is verily here the
> salutation (vandana) of the symbol of one's own Self.
> 28. The idea of the unreality of duties is termed as the saintly act (sat
> kriya) of the Self. Thinking of the Self as being beyond names and forms,
> this is the praise of his name (nama kirtana).
> 29. The hearing (shravana) of that God is the thought of the unreality of
> things to be heard of. The reflection (manana) of the symbol of the Self
> is
> the thought of the unreality of things to be reflected on.
> 30-31. Knowledge of the unreality of things to be contemplated upon, is
> the
> deep meditation (nididhyasana) of the Self. Devotedness to the Self by the
> absence of all delusion and distraction, is named the perfect steadiness
> (samadhi) of the Self; and not delusion of one whose mind rests on
> something
> else. This is called the eternal reposeof the mind (chitta vishranti) in
> Brahman itself.
> 32-33. Thus performing till death or even for a moment this worship of the
> symbols of one's own Self, which is expounded according to Vedanta, one
> who
> is well concentrated should give up the illusion of all bad impressions,
> as
> dust from the feet. Having shaken off the mass of ignorance and pain, one
> attains the bliss of liberation.
> || Om Tat Sat ||
> ------------------------------
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:09:42 +0530
> From: "Vishwanathan Raman" <raman.vishwanathan at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Free will Versus Karma Phala
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Pranams,
> I have a doubt lingering for sometime now and I am now posting it to this
> list hoping that some of the learned members will help me with my
> understanding. Whatever I have stated below is based on my understanding
> of
> the Karma theory, and so if there are any flaws in it, I request you to
> correct me.
> According to the Karma theory, every experience an individual experiences
> in his life is a result of his actions (either in the past or present
> life).
> There is a bank of Karma phala waiting for fructification (Sanchita) and
> those that have fructified for the present birth is known as Prarabhdha
> Karma. Those that are earned in the present birth is known as Agami Karma
> (and may fructify either in the present birth or in the future births).
> Further every human being is also endowed with a free will which allows
> him
> to choose the type of karma that he wishes to perform, with good karmas
> earning him punya while the bad karmas earn him a paapa.
> For e.g. lets taken an incident such as a terrorist attack. In this case
> the result of actions of a few set of people is causing grief to lot of
> people. I have difficulty in understanding such incidences. Is it that the
> attack serve as a means to distribute the Karma Phala of the individuals
> (victims) concerned. [similar to what happens during natural calamities].
> If so then the attackers have only been an instrument in the hands of the
> Lord to give the karma phala to the individuals concerned (nimitta matram
> bhava savyasachin B.Gita Ch.11-V.33) and no papam should accrue to them.
> But clearly this defies logic, as even in the case of a individual
> committing suicide, papam accrues to the person, since he is abusing his
> freewill. Thus the act of terrorism can only be an act that abuses
> freewill.
> But then how does one explain the suffering undergone by people who are
> affected by such acts.
> I don't have problem understanding suffering caused due to events such as
> natural disasters, suffering caused to diseases, or events that happen to
> which prior motive cannot be attributed (like accidents etc). But when
> willfull action by an individual causes harm to others, I am unable to
> understand / explain it using the karma theory.
> Shree Gurubhyo Namaha ||
> -Viswanathan.R
> ------------------------------
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