[Advaita-l] The purport of the mahAbhArata

prem d p prem_d_p at yahoo.co.in
Fri Dec 28 06:16:50 CST 2007

  dear sri bhaskar-ji,
  thank you very much for joining the discussion. i have known you thro' the list as one who is a strict follower of shankara advaita, always referring back to shankara himself even while learning from the works of who came after him, and as such your views are always of great value to me.
  since the discussion is primarily focussed on the being & nature of avatAra, i think amuthan-ji was only referring to the nature of avatAra as Atma-Iswaraikya jnani as against the Atma-Brahmaikya bhava of Jivanmukta.
  I tend to agree with you that Atma-Iswaraikya jnana cannot be achieved by the jiva, precisely for the reasons that you pointed out (ie. the difference in the limiting adjuncts which defines jiva and Iswara).
  So how does advaita address the being of avatAra? 
  Is there any reason why the limiting adjunct which gives rise to Iswara bhava is any less real than the limiting adjunct giving rise to jiva bhava? Or, is it that the question and conception of Iswara, after all, occurs only to the ignorant jiva?
  However, it is in the given context of co-existent (even though mithya) jiva and iswara that the sruti vakya tatvamasi has been spoken.

bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com wrote:
  praNAms Sri Prem prabhuji
Hare Krishna

If you could permit me, I shall share my understanding.

P prabhuji :

Atma-Brahmaikya jnana vs. Atma-Iswaraikya jnana brings out the difference
in very clear terms.

bhaskar :

AFAIK, there is nothing called Atma-Ishwaraikya jnAna is shankara's
advaita..coz. Ishwara & his qualities like omnipotence, omniscience etc.
etc. hold good only in transactional reality. And in vyavahAra, a
*socalled* jIva, with his limited adjuncts can never ever become an

P prabhuji :

Is Atma-Iswara-Aikya jnana achievable by a jiva? BSB seems to say that
the upasaka of saguna brahman reaches saguna brahman and is finally
released during cosmic dissolution.

bhaskar :

when jIva realizes the truth that his jIvatva & Ishwaratva both are kEvala
avidyAkruta or arise out of upAdhi saMbaNdha, where does the Ishvara-Atma
aikya jnAna arise?? It is only one jnAna that is worth for realization
i.e. yEkamEvAdvitIyatva of parabrahman.

P prabhuji :

But we also know that Iswara himself is in no need for any release.

bhaskar :

yes, it is said in shankara bhashya that though there is difference between
Ishwara/apara brahman & nirguNa/parabrahman in vyavahAra it is parabrahman
only the absolute reality..

P prabhuji :

This seems to imply that the Lordship of the World is not achievable. Does
it mean that identity with saguna brahman is not achievable?

bhaskar :

As you said below, since it is not the primary goal of the advaita's jnAna
mArga, one can hardly find any references/means for above achievement...
So, it is difficult to answer this question :-))But from advaita
perspective we can say there is absolutely no difference between
jIva-chaitanya & ishwara chaitanya & socalled difference lies only in
upAdhi-s which are ultimately come under the sphere of ignorance (avidyA)

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

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