[Advaita-l] Trees have life- bhAshya

sriram srirudra at vsnl.com
Mon Dec 10 23:30:02 CST 2007

Dear Sri Viswanathan
The harmones control the moods and brain controls the secretion of  these 
harmones through sympathetic nervous system.A man is declared dead when his 
brain is dead.So I think brain is the seat for consciousness and by 
anaesthesia it is put to sleep and the individual does not feel any 
pain/sensation which shows that brain is the cause for our consciousness.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vishwanathan Raman" <raman.vishwanathan at gmail.com>
To: <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Trees have life- bhAshya

> Dear Shri Murthy,
> The points were not mine, but given out by my Guru. I am sure the learned
> members of this list will be able to cite references from the Sruti for 
> each
> of these. However I myself am only a beginner and am not very well versed 
> to
> give you the quotations right now, but we can take statements from Bhrugu
> Valli of Taittariya Upanishad, where the five sheaths (PanchaKoshA's) are
> negated to realize the ultimate Truth.
> However I try to give here my basic understanding of these points (again
> from whatever I understood from my Guru's teaching's). If you find any 
> flaw
> with my understanding, please point them out so that I can try to get a
> better grasp on the subject from my Guru.
> - Body intrinsically cannot have consciousness because if that is the case
> then there will be no concept of death. The fact that the SthUla  SarIra
> (categorized as anAtmA) is left behind in death implies that Consciousness
> is something other than the body.
> - Similarly mind is also categorized as AnAtma, because there is a knower 
> of
> the mind. 'I' know the conditions of my mind (that it is sad, happy, angry
> etc). The principle employed here is "I am different from whatever I 
> know".
> Thus the mind becomes the object of 'I' the subject. Further with modern 
> day
> drugs one can control the moods of the mind, implies that mind is also a
> (subtler) material and hence comes under anAtmA. Note that we cannot say
> brain is the controller of the moods, because the brain exists in the dead
> body also.
> - So based on the above we can say that the first two points follow. As to
> the 3rd point, an example that my guru gives is that of light. Though in a
> lighted room light is present everywhere, it can be perceived only where a
> reflecting medium is present. While one can always counter / question
> analogies, I would say that one needs to have Shradhdha in the Sruthi
> Pramana and the teachings of the great AchAryA. Same applies to the fourth
> point as well.
>  Again the points that I have stated above are my own way of trying to
> understand my Guru's teaching and at this point seems to have satisfied my
> intellect. However you or the other learned list members are always 
> welcome
> to question / comment on the above, so that it will help in my "Manana'
> process.
> PranAms,
> Viswanathan
>> From: H.N.Sreenivasa  Murthy
>>  Pranams to all.
>>  Dear Sri Vishwanathan Raman,
>>           The five points given out by you  are very thought provoking.
>>  The first four points, are they mere statements to be believed in only 
>> or
>> they are statements of facts which have been verified  and which can be
>> verified. If they are verified and verifiable facts  what is the 
>> methodology
>> for examining/verifying them?  How can I make them a living Truth within
>> myself?
>>           Help in that direction will immemsely benefit  the mumukshus .
>> Please share your understanding.
>>  With warm and respectful regards,
>>  Sreenivasa Murthy
>> Vishwanathan Raman <raman.vishwanathan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I would like to add one point here (based on my understanding of my Guru
>> Swami ParamArthanandA's teachings).
>> He often says 5 points in his classes, that we need to remember whenever
>> we
>> talk about Consciousness aka Existence (Note the capitalized forms of 'C'
>> and 'E'), which I would like quote here for the benefit of the list
>> members.
>> (1) Consciousness or Existence is not a part/product/property of the body
>> /
>> mind complex.
>> (2) Consciousness or Existence is an independent entity that pervades and
>> enlivens the body / mind complex.
>> (3) Consciousness or Existence is not limited by the boundaries of the
>> body
>> / mind complex.
>> (4) Consciousness or Existence survives even after the disintegration of
>> the
>> body / mind complex.
>> (5) The surviving Consciousness or Existence is not experienced not
>> because
>> it is absent but because the medium of transaction (body / mind complex)
>> is
>> not present.
>> Thus whenever we talk about gradations in Consciousness what we are 
>> really
>> talking about is the Reflected Consciousness (ChidAbhAsa) and not the
>> Original Consciousness (which is Sat-Chit-Ananda).
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