[Advaita-l] Re: Real vs Unreal

[Sylvain]

Is the world in brahman according to advaita vedAnta ?

If yes, could we say the world is relative reality instead of non existing ?

Sylvain

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Krunal Makwana" <krunalmakwana at hotmail.com>
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" 
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: Re: [Advaita-l] Real vs Unreal


namo nArAyana

Dear Sylvain,

> to say that something is real or unreal warrants specifying to whom it is 
> real or unreal.

saMsAri:
world is real as long as we can differentiate between you and me
Brahman is real

brahmajnAni:
world is unreal, they can go to the extent that it does not even exist!!
brahman is sole reality

> when the sleep is over, the sleeper is gone as well. This seems to mean 
> that we need to be careful when juggling concepts like time and 
> real/unreal...
> Upon waking up, the sleeper is gone and the concepts are gone as well.

AV accepts 3 levels of realities:
1. pratIbhAsika - Lower level of relative reality:Everything we see with our 
naked eye, is pratIbhAsika as we know everything here has a beginning and so 
will have an end. e.g. sthUla SarIra (gross/material body) etc...2. 
vyavahArika - Higher level of relative reality:Everything here is what we 
cannot see but we know it exists e.g. mind, we all know we have a mind (okay 
I agree in some people this is debatable but nevertheless) but we cannot see 
it.Here in this level of reality there are (superimposed due to ignorance) a 
plurality of souls which consist of 6 (minimum) elements: They aresUkshma 
SarIra : subtle body - This has powers which make the sthUla SarIra (gross 
body) work e.g. within our gross body we have eyes but the sUkshma Sarira 
has the power of seeing hence without the sUkshma SarIra we cannot see, it's 
kind of like the power behind the gross body, like electricity is the power 
behind a computer, without the electricity the computer would not 
work.kArana SarIra: causal/astral body - This holds the desires that we 
accumulate in our life time. E.g. if person A desires to be a millionaire, 
this desire is then kept within his kArana SarIra, until this desire is 
completed. If person A has not fulfilled his desire of being a millionaire 
in his life as person A he will come back as person B and so on until his 
desire(s) are completed. Soooo we are here to complete our desires that we 
has in our previous life BUT beware to accumulate more desires in this life 
or you'll have to come back again and again and again and again and again (i 
think you get the picture, lol)mann - Mind: This helps us think 
(duh!!!)buDDhI - Intellect: Helps discrimination among objects. e.g. if 
Maganbhai was thirsty and had to liquids in front of him one being milk and 
another being poison, the mind will label and distinguish between the two, 
but the intellect will distinguish that milk will be good for you and the 
poison will kill you.ahankAra: Ego: This is the sense of ownership (this can 
be good in spiritual advancement but could also be detrimental depends how 
you use it) e.g. 'I' did this today, this car is 'mine'Cit: finite 
consciousness - This holds imprints within your mind and intellect in 
helping toward discrimination.3. paramArthika The supreme reality: This is 
the supreme reality where the sAdhaka (spiritual seeker) will now 
his/herself as brahman. Just as rivers and streams have a name and a form 
when they 'merge' with the ocean they lose all identity similarly with the 
aspirant has known the supreme knowledge he identifies himself with brahman, 
the upaniSads proclaim 'brahmavid brahmaiva bhavati' (he who knows brahman 
becomes brahman). Here this is only Non-dualism, these is no plurality of 
souls  within brahman but only brahman alone and we become brahman...not a 
part of brahman but brahman himself

within the first two realities we cannot deny the existence of time, space, 
name as we experience it everyday of our life. but when supreme reality 
dawns ONLY brahman exists, time etc are all non-existent.

> In this sense while "on earth" we use dvaita to differentiate 
> (real/unreal, eternal, temporary) but the process of differentiation 
> 'makes sense' only if it is decided to 'per practical' while on
> earth (work,food, etc.)

I think negation would be a 'more' suitable term.

> There is no much sense to all these categories if we refer to Brahman.

i don't understand why? please can you elaborate :)

> The concepts of real and unreal are useful metaphors to navigate sensory 
> world.

Yes but ultimately sensory objects are not really 'real' as well.

Please can the learned members forgive me,  i if have uttered anything 
incorrect and correct me wherever i may have went wrong

Kind regards,Krunal