[Advaita-l] mANDUkya series

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 18 18:25:44 CDT 2006

--- Annapureddy Siddhartha Reddy <annapureddy at gmail.com> wrote:

> -- You mentioned that the vaidIka karmas etc. are necessary for chitta
> shudhdi. I agree with that. All I am trying to say is one does not
> have to invent a theory of lOkas to justify the rituals. You can
> always say that the rituals are meant for chitta shudhdi. If we are
> afraid that this would lead to improper (ill-disciplined) performance
> of rituals, the wise would/did always set a rigorous precedent by
> their own example.

Siddhartha Garu - PraNAms.

Bhagavat paada Shankara discusses these issues in his commentary on the
first suutra of Brahmasuutra.  I have presented Shankara BhAShya up to
suutra 5 in the advaitin list and they are stored in the archives of the
list, which you can download for your study.  The role of karma,
particularly the karma khanda that you are referring to, has been
exhaustively treated by dismissing a pUrvapaxa's argument that it is
necessary.  The analysis presented is very exhaustive and educative. 
> -- A third position that can be discerned is that the theory of karma
> etc. are a statement
> of facts; things as they are in the vyAvahArika world. I guess this is
> a matter of faith,
> and I should either believe it or not.

Siddharthaji - VyAvahArika is not something to be dismissed at the
saadhana stage.  The very saadhana is in the vyavahaara only.  Faiths,
beliefs, notions are all in the vyavahaara including the sAdhana and
sAdhya.  The truth transcends all these. 
> My line of reasoning previously was as follows. The message of
> advaita, viz. conviction in the mind of the unity of everything, would
> have been useful even if we considered that there is only one life for
> every soul (i.e., that a soul is generated on conception, and it gets
> destroyed at the time of death). 

Yes.  However, a conviction has to be there that the truth is advaita. 
If that conviction is there, there is no question of this birth either. 
Advaitin does not belief in this birth itself then where is the question
of past or future lives.  That is the conviction that I was never born
nor die and I am that eternal consciousness.  Until that conviction is
established in one's mind, our current understanding is that I am the
body-mind-complex with the naama and ruupa, and I have to realize, etc,
and these are deeply ingrained in our minds.  Then there is also a
question of why am I born? What happens after death; Why there are
disparities in the lives of jiivas?; if God is all compassionate one why
cannot He just take us to moxa, etc arise.  Ignorance and karma theory
has to follow to account those disparities that are taken to be true
right now.  In reality, there is neither ignorance nor realization ether
- who is going to realize what?  If that is the case, then what to talk
about beliefs and faiths?  As long as one takes dvaita or duality, that
one sees, as real, the law of karma and prArabda or fate and
purushhaartha or free will, etc are all present, and they are as real as
the world that one perceives. One should be very careful  from what
reference one is discussing the issues of beliefs, actions and results,
and lokas, etc.  Any discussion of these issues assumes their existence
and their existence are as real as the discusser discussing the issues. 
Advaita has to be realized as non-duality in spite of duality – it is
not dismissing the duality as non-existent or unreal but seeing the
all-pervading reality in spite of their apparent existence.      

Because, attaining a steadiness of
> mind is useful even for this single life, as we do not get tossed
> about, like a helpless being, by the vagaries of life. But, this would
> not have been conducive to morality, as people might not desist from
> evil acts if they knew this was the only life they could "enjoy". So,
> I felt that one pUrvapaksha is that the karma theory is a fabrication
> to promote morality. (Though personally, I feel it's a very powerful,
> useful and logical theory, and given also some scientific evidence for
> reincarnations, I tend to believe it all the more.)

Siddharthaji - when one agrees that the low of action and results
operate in this life, that every action has result that is formed by the
laws that are beyond one’s control, and every result is a product of an
action, you have already established the eternal law of action. If you
accept the present life then you have to analyze the cause for the
present life.  Low of action and result cannot operate abruptly from
birth to death.  You cannot have a semi-infinite model like other
religions – eternal life after this life but no birth before this life. 
It is illogical. The present life itself is a result of some actions in
the past.   The cause for your life has to be accounted -The cause for
the disparity in births has to be accounted.  The cause for in born
tendencies in individuals even in this life has to be accounted.  You
can have your beliefs.  However, low of action and results are beyond
individual beliefs. The laws of nature are beyond individual beliefs. 
Law of karma is the law of nature that Krishna presents in Gita. 
Vedanta is very logical even through the truth is beyond logic. 

Lokas are fields of experiences.  Just as the dream world is a field of
experience to experience those vAsanas (suppressions and oppressions of
the desires in the waking state)  that cannot be experienced in the
waking state, there are other lokas or fields of experiences to exhaust
one’s vAsanas.  For that, Vedas are pramANa.  You need not believe
those, but that is your choice.  But, their existence is not illogical. 
But, they are fields to exhaust only, and not to accumulate, new
vAsanas.  One has to return to karma bhuumi, to return to evolve further
where  free will is provided for humans to accelerate their evolution. 
Hence, even the haven is only a resort area where one can stay there to
cashin ones merits and once the credit balance goes to zero one is
pushed out of Haven (xeenepunye martyulokam vishanti).  Hell is a
rehabilitation center to make the mind to get rid of its filth.  Krishna
provides an answer to the question of Arjuna in the 6th Ch. as to what
happens to the one who did not make it to the top in this life.  Please
study that portion. Krishna says nothing will be a waste.  He will be
born in a family (some after enjoying in heavenly abodes) or in an
environment that is conducive for his rapid evolution.  Read the
biographies of Great masters like Ramana or even Aandamayima, the kerala
woman born as fisherwoman but rose to new heights as the family
environment pushed her to surrender to the Lord.  

Hari OM!

> A.Siddhartha.
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org

More information about the Advaita-l mailing list