[Advaita-l] Self-knowledge: Resend
satyan_c at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 1 04:46:20 CST 2006
I apologize for another email because the formatting of the original email was not good. If the mnoderators want, they can remove the duplicate email from the records.
Namaste shrI amuthan,
You seem to be advocating prasAnkhyana vAda which has been explicitly
refuted by both sankara and sureshwara. prasAnkhyana cannot generate
new knowledge that wasn't available before but prasAnkyana claims to.
If what you are stating is *not* prasAnkhyana vAda, please illustrate the difference between what you say and what prasAnkyana vAdins say.
bhagavatpAda and sureshwara are uncompromising in their stand that
the sruti sravanam from the guru produces 'aparoksha jnAnam' (direct
knowledge) and not paroksha jnAnam (indirect knowledge) that has to be
made direct later by some other means such as reaffirmation. In fact,
nidhidyAsana is not a means to create new knowledge but to remove
repeated habitual body mind identification and establish oneself in the
same knowledge already gained during sravanam.
There is no creation of any new knowledge by any other means other
than the sruti. In fact, sureshwara says that if sravanam and mananam
did not produce doubt free knowledge, nidihidyAsanam may only end up
repeating the wrong knowledge, which is of course not only in capable of
producing the right knowledge but is in fact would confirm and
strengthen the wrong knowledge!!
The difficulty that bhagavatpAda and sureshwara would run into if
they yielded aparoksha jnAnam outside the realm of the sruti pramAna is
that there is some "more fruitful knowledge" generated outside of the
sruti that dilutes the claim that the sruti is the sole pramAna for
fruitful knowledge of bramhan.
I will let bhagavatpAda speak in the rest of the mail.
bhava sankara desika me saranam!!
QUOTE B.U.B 1.iv.7
"Others say that meditation generates a new special
kind of consciousness regarding the Self, through
which the latter is known, and which alone removes ignorance,
and not the knowledge due to the Vedic dicta about the Self.
And in support of this view they cite texts such as the following:
'(The aspirant after Bramhan) knowing about this alone, should
attain intuitive knowledge (BU IV.iv.21)
'(The Self)' is to be realized - to be heard of, reflected on,
and meditated upon' (II.iv.5; IV.v.6),
'That is to be sought, and That one should desire to realize'
'BOTH VIEWS ARE WRONG, for there is no reference to anything
else in the passage in question. To be explicit: The sentence,
'The Self alone is to be meditated upon' is not an original
injunction. Why? Because except the knowledge that arises
from the dictum setting forth the nature of the Self and
refuting the non Self, there is nothing to be done either
mentally or outwardly. An injunction is appropriate only where,
over and above the knowledge that arises immediately from
hearing a sentence of the nature of an injunction, an activity on
part of a man is easily understood, as in sentences like,
'One who desires heaven must perform thew new and full moon
sacrifices'. The knowledge arising from a sentence enjoining these
sacrifices is certainly not the
performance of them"
Objection: Is not the train of remembrance of knowledge of the Self
generated by the passage relating to It something different from the
knowledge itself arising from the hearing of It (and hence that is to
Reply: No, for the remembrance of the Self comes automatically.
That is to say, as soon as the knowledge of the Self arises in
consequence of hearing a dictum related to It, it necessarily
destroys the false notion about It. It could not arise otherwise.
And when this false notion about the Self is gone, memories
due to that, which are natural to man and concern the
multitude of things other than the Self, cannot last.
Moreover, everything else is known to be evil......
Objection: Well, then the control of the mind may be something
different. In other words, since the control of the mental states
is something different from the knowledge of the Self arising from
Vedic texts, and since we know that this has been prescribed for
practice in another system (Yoga), let this be enjoined.
Reply: NO, FOR IT IS NOT KNOWN AS A MEANS OF LIBERATION. In the
Upanisads, nothing is spoken of as a means to the attainment of
the highest end of man except the knowledge of the identity of
the self and Bramhan. Witness hundreds of Sruti texts like the following:
'It knew only Itself......Therefore it became all' (I.iv.10)
'The knower of Bramhan attains the highest' (Tai II.i.1)
'He who knows the supreme Bramhan becomes Bramhan' (Mu. III.ii.9)
'He only knows who has got a teacher. It takes him only so long'
'He who knows it as such indeed becomes the fearless Bramhan'
(IV.iv.25; Nr. Ut. VIII)
Besides there is no other means for control of mental states except
the knowledge of the Self and the train of remembrance about it.
We have said this as a tentative admission; really we do not know of
no other means of liberation except the knowlede of Bramhan.
Moreover, there being no curiosity to know, no effort is necessary.
To be explicit: You said, in the effort in connection with the
injunction such as, 'One should sacrifice,' there is a curiosity to
know what the sacrifice is about, what its means are, and how it is
to be performed, and it is satisfied by the mention of the goal,
the means and the method of sacrifice; similarly, here too, in the
injunction about the knowledge of the Self, thoise things are necessary.
BUT YOU ARE WRONG, for all curiosity is ended as soon as one knows the
meaning of such texts as, 'One without a second,' 'Thou Art That,'....
There is more that Sureshwara has to say on this topic. But as you
can see, when the guru speaks, the disciple is quiet :) So, I will
reserve that for some future point.
Amuthan <aparyap at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
thus, samAdhi is an inevitable consequence of
nididhyAsana. of course, the nature of samAdhi depends
on the particular nature of the nirodha pariNAma.
during samAdhi, the modifications of the mind subside
and so, 'tadA draShTuH svarUpe.avasthAnam' (1.3) - the
self is directly known. after this sattvApatti, the
parokSha j~nAna received from the guru becomes
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