[Advaita-l] 'End' not 'Means'
vishy1962 at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 20 00:48:40 CDT 2006
Let me try to clarify the base for whole debte:
I am not a " Pandith" or expert in sanskrit and scriptures. What little I know is thru various english translations (of Bhagwad geetha/ Upanishads and bit of vedas) and discussions held with some seers and swamijis.
The Jist of Advaitha, in a lay man's language:
"Jeevathma and Paramathma is one and the same. It is within all of us and without too. The wall of ignorance (Avidya) is creating an illusion (Maya) that they are different. The movement the wall is destroyed by acquiring right knowledge you realise " You are That" and there is "No-Two" How to destroy
this wall is thru Sadhana for which all scriptures, rituals even Gurujis are just
" means" You choose the means according to your own background and strength (say either Jnana, Bhakthi or karma )"
With this understanding what I meant to say is to treat 'means' as just means and nothing more, like forgetting the boat after crossiing the river, however nice it was.
I also feel Advaitha marga is more of a Jnana marga rather that of Bhakthi and Karma
But I had a feeling 'means' were given more weight than due , and that why I had written earlier mail.
Hope my clarifications are good enough
Pranams to all
m w <all_discussions at yahoo.com> wrote:
First, if it was solved then we can keep it a solved one, and I don't know what was the solution for it centuries ago, but for me the solution is here and now and that is that women have their own liberty in that....If you want to present your vedas then its perfectly fine if they deny, you can deny the women who come to you for gaining such a knowledge...I don't know what you mean by monkey but denying the liberty of such a knowledge is a sin against even the words of scriptures and I think Bhagvad Gita also says that that it can be taught to all those prepared ones who love to gain that..be they anyone...."I don't find a more beautiful woman than the one who has self knowledge... and I don't find anyone pious than her...I would bend thousand times in front of her paying my respectful genuflections."
>> The curse of India is so many of
its people seem to prefer to remain monkeys/children.>>>
Jaldharji I think you really understood the story from Sanjayji and I think if you got the point then you could get my point also...It is that we are trying to repeat the same monkey thing again and again...the only thing is how we see things...
>>>Manish, do you or have you ever actually lived in the West? Because
writing from New York, the notion that the people here are in any less
bondage or thinking whatever they want is laughable. They have different
types of bondage that's all.>>>
Well Jaldharji!!! It is such a great opportunity for us both that we can share our thoughts from the same land....I am writing my emails from WEST and I understand the problems both the lands face....so atleast you can count me on that for seeing both the sides of the coin.....
Regarding notionless state...then Jaldharji I would say that if you really read all the scriptures you will get the essence of what I mean. Thousands of TVs or things put in front of you..be in thousands of responsibilities or anything..nothing can snatch away from you that state....If experiencing is goal for anyone then I think it can come even without sanyasa...and I am 100% sure that sannyasa is a state of being it is not something external and when I say it I can totally understand what Sri Krishna has said throughout the whole Bhagvada Gita..If the right essence is not there then sannyasa is always that state in which yellow robes and external renunciation is there...not understanding....
Notionless state is something different from just thoughtless state..Infinity enters and there is nothing that your mind holds on to...
Regarding Krishnamurthy ...then I am not a fan of his but my only point is that it is about getting right essence and one can take that from anyone....
Krishnamurthy was a tagged advaitin or not..it doesn't matter to me....what good he had to say for me that's how I see him or anyone...not if he is following someone or not...if he is tagged with something or not..... In fact it doesn't matter if someone calls anyone as an advaitin or not....tagging is not anybody's goal and I understand there are so many people out there...even in US..who even don't know what advaita is...still they know the essence and they live upto it....That is more important....
Being notionless comes through renunciation (internal) and right understanding along with all other practices ...and it comes...and it stays and it attains maturity..it does happen (one more thing..there is a difference between notion and thought...)..and i think I am pretty sure I can compare such things from scriptures...
i am not against anything Jaldharji....neither scriptures nor people nor their ways...nor traditions infact..but the most important thing is right spirit...you also might have noticed that....when you would have come to US you might have seen that there is no such constant in terms of anything..there is a drastic shift of many things when you see WEST and I do like many things of west that are Bhagvada Gita in itself....
Jaldharji...It is not that we agree or disagree with each other...I always mean one thing and that is ..Do we have the right spirit....I can keep refuting your point and you can do that unto me....but it doesn't matter to both of us...and I think it doesn't
Word of scriptures is holy spirit ( as they say in WEST) in itself ..but if bondage to the word be it of scriptures or anything..it is bondage in itself...
Rest all are wise enough to decide for themselves as to what they want.....
Anyways I was seeing your baby's pictures few days back and they are all very sweet...atleast at the level of that flowing innocence...all debates die down...
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