[Advaita-l] A lost Vedic ritual is brought alive
mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com
Mon Oct 31 11:31:22 CST 2005
Since you do not wish to continue this thread very much longer, I will try
and make this my last post on this thread to you. I will address your points
in the light of of the Kabir vakya so that my original reason for it becomes
My observation is that we only worry about these people (who mostly belong
to the lower strata of society) when they get go in for "conversion". The
very fact that they wish to convert is that they feel that by doing so they
will find an avenue for relief from their miserable condition (be it
physical or spiritual). And who has allowed them to be in that condition?
You and me (if not you, I know for sure I have some hand in it). Do I ever
read a full article on the condition of adivasis, for example, in the paper
or am I busy chasing after the editorial for "more important" matters? Do I
spend time working with the underprivelged or am I more busy with making my
career? It is we, as Hindus, who have failed the converts rather than the
Christians who have succeeded. On long reflection I have found that it is no
use complaining about the ills of society if you sit back and do nothing
about it. If you feel society should be better, show it a way to do so and
don't complain...that's the easy part!
And about the Mughal invasion. The Manduya Upanishad which I am studying
right now, points out that the Virat and Visa is the same. What happens in
the Visva is reflected in the Virat and viceversa. In this light, there are
two ways of looking at this:
> as humans (visva) go thru trials and tribulations in their lives, so does
the country (virat). It is a phase and one comes out stronger by means of it
> the virat thinking of the country had come to such a level that it was
inviting an assault by another people. I have forgotten my pre-mughal
history so cannot give you an exact example but was the country disunited
with small kingdoms fighting among themselves waiting to be walloped by a
more united one?
So, the Mandukya's equivalence points to the same Kabir vakya when you
equate the Virat and the visva as one.
I will end with a Buddhist phrase (which incidently is in perfect harmony
"Everything is perfect, but could do with a lot of improvement!"
So, see the perfection! Thou are That! Thou art perfect! And so is the
world! That is realization!
Humble pranams, Mahesh
On 10/29/05, Amuthan Arunkumar R <aparyap at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> namo nArAyaNAya!
> dear shrI mahesh ursekar and other list members,
> i'm sending this mail to the list than to u as a
> personal mail since i have some specific issues to be
> brought into light. on the side issue of "secularism",
> i agree with shrI satish arigela's viewpoint, but
> since that is outside the scope of this list, i'll
> just state the reasons why i agree with his views and
> be silent on this. i have deliberately used a rough
> language below to make my point clear. pardon me for
> ---shrI Mahesh Ursekar wrote:
> > it is not the main topic of this thread, but such
> > sectarian thoughts are
> > saddening on a list that professes oneness! Advaita!
> i agree with both abhiShek's and ur observation that
> this side-topic doesn't fit into this list. but i
> completely disagree with the reasoning u have used to
> support it. since the reason why ur reasoning is not
> apt fits into the scope of this list, i'm addressing
> it here. advaita asserts only Atmabrahmaikya (oneness
> of AtmA and brahman) and definitely NOT the oneness of
> two entities in vyAvahArika sattA. to put it in other
> words, bheda is accepted in vyAvahArika. if u disagree
> with this, then u should have absloutely no hesitation
> in say, eating mud instead of ur normal food since
> both r "one" according to advaita :-). DIFFERENCES DO
> EXIST IN VYAVAHARIKA (especially so among religions).
> IMO, it is total nonsense to say that all religions r
> equal. what mahAn-s like shrI rAmakR^iShNa paramahamsa
> wanted to convey when they asserted the equality of
> all religions is the idea of universal tolerance
> towards all religions. regarding the 'abrahamic'
> religions, i feel that these have done and still do
> considerable damage to our vaidika dharma. while the
> muslim invaders of the past have ruthlessly destroyed
> our culture (and much more, everyone knows what and
> how), in the present days, greater harm is done by our
> christian brothers [especially those (IMO) "brainless"
> proselytisers who don't hesitate to use the most
> blatantly irrational means to convert people into
> their fold]. we have always been secular and tolerant
> and it is NOT WE who need to be taught what secularism
> or tolerance is. if at all u want to talk about the
> equality of religions, don't talk about it here. talk
> about it to all the proselytisers (especially the
> christians who are very active today) who don't have
> any respect, much less, tolerance, for our vaidika
> dharmam. SECULARISM SHOULD NOT LEAD TO DIGGING OUR OWN
> GRAVE AS IT IS HAPPENING NOWADAYS. TOLERANCE DOES NOT
> MEAN ALLOWING OTHERS TO DESTROY OUR RELIGION. i only
> hope that the present indian populace gets rid of it's
> (pseudo) secularism ideals ASAP. on the other hand, i
> fervently hope our christian brothers (ONLY those who
> r keen on "converting", i have no cribs about the
> others) learn at least the existence of a word called
> "religious tolerance".
> i'm not interested in discussing further on this topic
> either in the list or off the list, unless there r
> "genuine" objections to the issues i have raised.
> please do not send replies filled with the trite
> notions of equality of all religions and the
> importance of religious tolerance by quoting mahAn-s
> like shrI kabIr dAs. this is because such replies r
> almost always misinterpreted or addressed to the wrong
> set of people. i'm sorry again for this blunt
> statement, but i'm pretty much "closed" in my opinion
> on this topic. regarding the tone of my language here,
> i should say that i became totally irritated and
> frustrated and what not, a couple of years back when
> i first came to know of all this "converting" and
> "plundering" stuff and hence, i tend to become
> volcanic in venting my anger while asserting my stand
> on these issues (like "secularism" and all such crap).
> while i've considerably calmed myself over the years,
> the initial impact was so deep that remnants of it
> still remain, as u might have by now understood :-)
> i'm really sorry if i hurt anyone because of my
> language. i tried my best to stay away from this
> thread, but somehow i ended up typing this big mail.
> moderators, please forgive me for delivering a
> harangue on a topic which does not fit into the list.
> vAsudevaH sarvaM,
> Amuthan Arunkumar R,
> Final year, B.Tech/M.Tech Dual Degree,
> Dept. of Aerospace Engg., IIT Madras.
> Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
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