mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com
Sat Mar 12 15:30:01 CST 2005
>>We may say that at BL, the liberated soul, that followed 8/24 path,
will get the >>final liberation teaching, and then the liberated soul
would put the teaching into >>practise by meditation, which eventually
leads to the awakening of kundalini, >>and at the time of pralaya, the
soul merges in absolute
Could you elaborate on this some more? Who will give the final
teaching in BL? From what I have read, the birth on earth is the most
valued and infact even the envy of the Devas in Deva lok since only a
human can attain to liberation from samsara. And this liberation can
occur on earth itself by the raising of the Kundalini. What further
mediation is required in BL? And for whom?
>> Before, death (that is, for him it is called pralaya)
>> his soul still localized finitely in a physical body and the terms
of 2/24 are not >> applicable.
Do you think the word pralaya is wrongly used here? The death of a
jeevan mukta cannot be called pralaya (or destruction) since such a
person is not under control of death as we experience it. He or she is
the Master and can choose to discard his or her body at will and at
the time of his or her choosing. I think in the Upanishads, to the
question, "Knowing what does one know everything?", the answer is
"Brahman". So a jeevan mukta is Brahman as illustrated in the famous
verse sung for a realized guru (excuse the grammar):
Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnu, Gurur DevoMaheshwara,
Gurur Sakshat ParaBrahma
Tasmai Sri Guruveynamah
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:11:22 -0800 (PST), ramesh badisa
<badisa66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "From what I have read, realization is only possible when the Kundalini is raised to the crown chakra or Samadhi is achieved"
> Badisa: Namaste to all. I agree to it, because it is in agreement with Upanishad teachings. For example, in Yogashikaopanishad, 1.21 it is said that no salvation is possible without awakening of kundalini (meaning, reaching of kundalini to crown reagion of head). Thus, a question was asked earlier how awakening of kundalini is possible for a qualified soul, that followed the 8/24 path of Gita and waiting at Brahma Lok (BL)? Unfortunately, the focuss of discussion went in a different direction a bit (no hard feelings please). We may say that at BL, the liberated soul, that followed 8/24 path, will get the final liberation teaching, and then the liberated soul would put the teaching into practise by meditation, which eventually leads to the awakening of kundalini, and at the time of pralaya, the soul merges in absolute divine. This meging of soul in divine has to take place at pralaya. Then only the soul is said to become divine. Otherwise not. How do we know that? We all know
> divine is present everywhere at all the times. Unless, the liberated soul merges in divine, it is not possible for the liberated soul to become divine at be everywhere at all the times. Thus in Gita 2/24, Lord Krishna uses the terms, sarva gatah, achaloyam etc for the soul to indicate that the soul in the state of salvation is indeed divine. It means that the liberated soul at BL has to merge in divine at pralaya in order to become sarva gatah and achaloyam etc. This won't happen on the part of the same liberated soul at BL before pralaya. Because, this soul, even though successfully awakened the kundalini due to meditation after the final liberation teaching, it is still localized in a particular abode, and thus sarva gatah, achaloyam etc not has taken place, meaning that the liberated soul at BL before pralaya, inspite of realization, is not called divine. The same holds true for a divine realized person, called a jeevan mukta. Before, death (that is, for him it is called
> his soul still localized finitely in a physical body and the terms of 2/24 are not applicable. Thus, the state of a jeevan mukta is called the state of realization, but not salvation. Without salvation, no advaitam takes place, but there is only realization of advaitam.
> "I beg to differ on your interpretation of the realization Brahman
> state, also called Samadhi. It is only in Samadhi that the knower,
> know and the knowing process become one and so there is "only
> Advaitam" at that time and no "realization of Advaitam". The latter
> connotes the fact that the knower and know are different which is
> impossible as per what Advaita means"
> Badisa: Sir, I request you humbly to see the above answer.
> "Your analogy of the river and the sea is slightly flawed since it appears to be more closer to a Vishistha Advaitic interpretation that jiva and Atman are different in some sense while Advaita is monism through and through - there is no form of qualification"
> Badisa: Sir, when the river and sea analogy was given, I expected that the topic of Vishitadvaita philosophy would be brought, which you did. But, if we notice very closely, the analogy of river and sea is right in advaitic point of view, and thus, I quoted Gita 2/24 sloka to authenticate the advaitic point of view rather than vishitadvaita view.
> Namaste to all
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