[Advaita-l] Re: Love molecule
skbhattacharjya at yahoo.co.in
Wed Dec 7 04:04:54 CST 2005
Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya,
Probably you do not know that Shri Madhvacharya had proved his guru wrong and the guru then accepted Shri Madhvacharya as his guru. This happened in case of Shri Ramanujacharya also to some extent. Lord Buddha discarded the teachings his guru Allara Kalama. In the ancient past also there were gurus, who in the modern sense, were exposed. So there were many traditional ajnani gurus in the past as are as present. So please do not make any sweeping disparaging comment on all the modern gurus.
Amuthan Arunkumar R <aparyap at yahoo.co.in> wrote: namo nArAyaNAya!
dear shrI sunIl bhaTTAchArjya,
--- sunil bhattacharjya
> ... Not all traditionally trained gurus are
> enlightened. gurus.
yes, but the difference is that a traditionally
trained vidvAn will never delude himself to be j~nAni
unless he has realized the goal himself. in other
words, if he has not realized the truth, he will know
that he hasn't.
many modern age guru-s give lot of importance to yoga
alone and neglect the later stages. yoga can give
chitta shuddi, but it will not give j~nAna. yoga is
just a karma and it is the definite stand of advaita
that mokSha is not attainable through any karma, but
only through j~nAna. it is very much possible to
attain a state akin to hiraNyagarbha or something of
that sort where the mind is not destroyed but one
acquires a lot of powers. thus, while there may be
great yogi-s among the present age guru-s, not many of
them will qualify to the lofty ideal of a j~nAni. a
traditionally trained vidvAn will always compare his
level with those of his guru-s and he will never dare
to proclaim himself to be a j~nAni. on the other hand,
if he attains perfect mano nAsha, the sense of duality
will automatically drop out. so, as long as the manas
exists, he will behave with vinaya towards his guru-s
and always transfer any praise showered on him to his
guru. this is the standard tradition in india as we
all know. (this is similar to what shrI sa~njay
as shrI vidyAsha~Nkar pointed out, there are
innumerable ways to detect the fakes. it is
unfortunate that some charlatans and in other cases,
misguided yogi-s have made a business out of this by
proclaiming themselves to be jagadguru-s. the presence
of many of these new-age guru-s only reveals the
spiritual ignorance of the populace at large.
and regarding the issue of shrI ramaNa maharShi,
comparing Him with the modern age guru-s is like
trying to estimate the worth of gold with mere stones
(this is my opinion. i'm sorry if it offended
someone). shrI ramaNa maharShi belongs to different
category altogether. even shrI ramaNa maharShi
advocates the necessity of a guru and in His own case,
He maintained that aruNAchala (= His own self) was His
a rather humorous account of meeting with a fake who
proclaimed himself to be a guru (and who believed that
he was one!) is narrated by paul brunton in his book
'a search in secret india'. brunton has very stringent
checks to find out the genuineness of the self
proclaimed guru-s and it's quite funny to see how
brunton finds out that the innumerable 'guru-s' he met
were fakes :-)
as long as there are people to get cheated, there will
be those who will cheat. it's best to stay away from
these and stick to the time tested traditional guru-s.
but, if the traditional community accepts a modern age
guru as genuine, there's no harm in following him.
Amuthan Arunkumar R,
Final year, B.Tech/M.Tech Dual Degree,
Dept. of Aerospace Engg., IIT Madras.
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