[Advaita-l] Re:Exit of soul (Badisa)

bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Wed Aug 31 04:16:16 CDT 2005

But, along with the soul (that is, reflected consciousness, as per your
understanding). In other words, reflected consciousness + the subtle body
will travel at the time of death of gross body.

praNAms Sri Ramesh prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Just   a   small  observation  before  my  comments...  prabhuji,  you  are
meticulously asking for the prasthAna traya references for everything...but
when it is provided you hardly care to comment on it!!! Ofcourse, you agree
with  me  we  cannot understand prasthAna traya on our own by going through
the original text...we need to refer our pUjya bhagavadpAda's commentary on
it to grasp the meaning of it contextually.

Let  me come back to the topic, if you dont mind, kindly tell us about your
definition   of   jIva/soul/reflected   consciousness   etc.   apart   from
dEhEndriyamanObuddhiahaNkAra....is  there  any finite no. jIva-s??  what is
its svarUpa & how can one distinguish between one jIva & another.  If there
are  multiple  jivas  then  each  jIva  is  different  from  the other. The
differences  rest in terms of qualifications (visHeshaNa) since only on the
basis of qualifications one can distinguish one jiva from the other correct
prabhuji??.  If they are identically the same in all respects then they are
indistinguishable  and if they are together there is no way to separate one
from  the  other.  Under these circumstances, could you please justify your
statement  of  multiple  jIva-s  &  their  pAramArthic  separation from the
ultimate  reality till the death of the container of those individual souls

According to my understanding, jIva as an individual soul, is nothing but a
reflection  of  brahman  in  avidyA (ignorance) where transactional reality
holds  sway or shortly, individual soul is nothing but a hypothetical being
-  a  chemira of the mind.  The Atman here is different from the body (i.e.
including  physical(stUla),  subtle (sUkshma) & causal (kAraNa) bodies) and
is  not  affected  by  the  latter's  doings.   Please  note this is not an
individual Atman/soul/jIva as you are saying but he is called sAkshi chetaH
(witness  consciousness)  in shruti, kshEtragna as per gIta.  Prabhuji, can
you  tell  me when lord said he is Atman in sarva bhUta (ahamAtma gudAkEsha
praNinAM  dEham  AshtritaH)  whether  he  is  reffering to reflected finite
consciousness  or  that which is infinite/yEkamEvAdvitIya brahman??  If you
say  it  is  paramAtman  then  we  have  to  believe  that  there  are  two
consciousness  (finite  concsiousness as jIva and infinite consciousness as
paramAtman) in a body!! But this is not advaita, this is dvaita/duality.

It  is  really strange to hear from an advaitin like you prabhuji that  the
jIvAtman  is  a  finite  and  conditioned  being  before  death,  while the
Paramatman  is the infinite, eternal, Sat-chit-ananda Brahman & distinction
will be maintained till the physical death of this individual soul.  But as
said  earlier,  the  jIvAtman  is  identical with Paramatman when Avidya is
destroyed. (jivo brahmaiva na paraha).  It is not like there are some bunch
of  individual  jIva-s  &  there  merging  with  one absolute reality after
death...but the very svarUpa of jIvatva is nothing but brahman.

And  finally,  test  of  avasthA  traya  proves  the  futility of ascribing
individuality  to  Atman.   As you know, the soul is individual only in the
waking  or  dream  states.   In  its  pure nature it is the highest reality
brahman, as revealed in what is called deep sleep.   vEdAnta, with the help
of  an  intuition  common  to  all men (sArvatrika pUrNAnubhava), finds its
futile  to  attempt  grasping  the  reality  of  secondless nature of Atman
through  the  waking  experience alone.  It subjects dream (svapna) & sleep
(sushupti)  to  a deep & careful scrutiny & discovers that time & space are
the  threads  of  the net in which waking & dream worlds are enmeshed. & it
concludes  the  world appearing in dream & waking as well as the individual
souls  are but reality invested with names & forms. Kindly refer shankara's
ItarEya upanishad & mAndUkya kArika bhAshya in this regard.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

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