[Advaita-l] Created universe - conclusion

ramesh badisa badisa66 at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 21 05:34:16 CDT 2005

Namaste to all. I am giving final thoughts on this subject. This is my last reply on this, then I will be out of this thread. 

“Consider Krishna's statement that the whole universe is only a fraction of Him. Now, would it make sense for Arjuna to ask, "then show me which part of you is the universe" or "show me which part of you is NOT the created universe"?
Badisa: You have a basic flaw in understanding about viswaroopam of Lord Krishna. That is the reason you have got the above wrong questions. What do you think that Lord Krishna showed to Arjun? Is it a fraction of purusha or whole purusha? From your above reply, it is clear that you have assumed it to be whole purusha. Thus, you have got the question that it would be no sense on Arjun’s part to ask Lord Krishna about that part of the created universe. Lord Krishna showed only the created universe of the purusha to Arjun, but not the whole purusha. That is the reason it is called ‘ viswaroopam (Viswa– universe) universal form’ of divine. Do we have proof for this? Yes. Please refer to Gita 11/5, where Lord Krishna asked Arjun to see different types of entities in different colors in him. Arjun saw all various beings belonging to the ‘created jagat –universe’ (11/13) only. All different deities, lokas, sages or divine serpents etc., etc., come under the created universe, and thus
 subject to dissolution at the time of pralaya. So your question, 
“show me which part of you is the universe" is not correct. Before it was asked, Lord Krishna has already showed fraction of purusha to Arjun, and thus there is no absurdity in this. 

“But definitely, the statement that "something that is only a part of infinity must be finite" has serious flaws in it, both logical and based on Sruti”

Badisa: You haven’t yet quoted any sruti references to prove that a part of infinity is infinity. All of your is mere speculation. As per Katha Up. (6th valli, 12 th mantra), the atma/paramatma cannot be understood, or grasped or known by speech or by senses or mind or buddhi, as these come under prakruti. It means that atma/paramatma needs to be experienced, and nobody can tell that experience. Prakruti cannot understand the divine. This is the parama praman for all of us. Thus I bank on it to say that atma/paramatma is infinite, because atma/paramatma is beyond anybody’s imagination. This is what I call an absolute infinity. As per the same rule, anything that can be understood or grasped or known with the help of mind, buddhi etc is finite. Now let us see the question if the created universe is finite or infinite, in view of the above praman. The created universe is understood or grasped or known with the help of mind, buddhi etc. Thus, it is the conclusive proof that the created
 universe is finite. After all mind, buddhi etc, (which are prakrutic, are also the products of creation, and they loose their identity eventually in prakruti, as mentioned in Pras. Up. 6.5) can understand another created thing, for example, created universe. This very understanding of the created universe by mind, buddhi etc., makes the created universe to be finite. Thus, the final conclusion from my side, based on pramanas, is that atma/paramatma is infinite, while the created universe, however 
big it may be, is finite. There is no doubt about it. 

A part of infinity is also infinity is human way of thinking in spirituality. If this is valid, then worshipping of a fraction of purusha should be equal to worshipping of whole purusha. But the sruti (Ch. Up. 5.17.1&2) does not accept it, but rather it warns us. When worshipping of fraction of purusha is rejected by sruti, then, on the same grounds, the idea that part of infinity is infinity is also rejected. 


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