[Advaita-l] Realisation and Time, Space, Cause

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 2 06:27:21 CDT 2003

--- Srikrishna Ghadiyaram <srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hari Om !!
> We read in books that at the time of Realisation, one
> identifies one's True nature to be beyond Time, Space,
> Cause limitations. 
> Conceptually, I understand that the thoughts that
> define these three Time, Space, Cause limitations is
> not in operation in Realisation of Conscious
> principle. So, I can understand that they do not have
> place in Absolute Consciousness.


Here is my understanding.

It is not that they do not have place in absolute consciousness.  They
raise in consciousness, sustained by consciousness and go back into
consciousness - hence definition - janmaadyasya yathaH.

There are two types of thoughts involved - idam vRitti and aham vRitti.
Idam vRitti is locused on idam - this- hence all idam vRitti that
constitutes most of the mind and intellect - are all thoughts locused on
the objects - either perceived through the senses from outside - hence
include the whole external creation -space and time concepts included.
In addition it also includes the idam-s that are recollected from
memory.  In fact in any cognition of the world outside there is
recognition of the object by matching the perceived object with the
object in the memory. The bottom line is the thoughts are in the mind
and the apparent locus for the idam thoughts are idam-s outside.  But
the contents of the any thought (the substantive of the thought) is
nothing but consciousness since senses can grasp only the attributes and
not substantive.  So object outside is nothing but thought inside and
thought inside is nothing but consciousness itself since I am conscious
of the thoughts. Thought can not be away from consciousness because if
it is away I cannot be conscious of the object out there.  Hence
thoughts are arise in consciousness exist in consciousness and dissolve
back into consciousness - Thus the world is now reduced to thoughts and
the contents of the thoughts are nothing but consciousness - etova
imaani bhuutaani jaayante .... can be easily understood in terms of

The aham vRitti -also arises along with idam vRitti - since I say I know
this object since I see it.  But unlike idam vRitti, aham vRitti is
centered on aham - that is I am - which is nothing but Brahman itself.
Hence unlike idam vRitti, aham vRitti has more permanent locus - Brahman
itself.  But the contents of the aham vRitti is also consciousness since
'I know that I know' is my understanding. 

Essentially 'as though' consciousness splits into two - seer and seen
thoughts but upon analysis - the contents or substantive of the both are
nothing but consciousness.  Neti neti -process is not elimination of iti
-iti - but understanding the very contents of the iti-s; and that is

Epistemologically - one cannot independently establish the existence of
the world out there without the mind that is supported by consciousness
present - Hence world falls under the category of mithya. - appears to
be there but not there if one analyzes deeply.

Bhagavan Ramana presents this very beautifully in his Upadesa saara

  dRisya vaaritam chittamaatmanaaH 
  chittava darshanam tatva darshanam||

Hari OM!


> We also hear that one sees all beings in oneself etc.
> We hear several poetic songs of realised saints
> singing the He is one with starts, one with trees etc.
> Even the Rigvedic Hymns such as Devi Suktam sing that
> way. 
> On what basis can we sing about "I" being one with all
> stars etc. where as 'Space' itself evolved from
> Absolute consciousness. If space evolved from
> consciousness, how can we describe Absolute
> Consciousness as 'Infinite' ???, that too at the time
> of Self Realisation where in there is no place for
> Time, Space, Causation.
> Om Namo Narayanaya !!
> Srikrishna
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