Can iishvara pull out a jiiva from bondage? jkcowart at CARI.NET
Wed Mar 22 10:37:40 CST 2000


At 05:49 AM 03/22/2000 -0800, Ravisankar Mayavaram wrote:
>...why there is so much emphasis on liberation in our shaastra-s?

That, too, is maya.  Liberation is beyond words--even scriptures.

>Why not pursue this game of saMsara for ever?

Perhaps, because one eventually tires of it.

>From the point of view of jiiva the suffering is real. No amount of
>intellectual reasoning can remove the pangs of this suffering.

In psychological terms, the refusal to see things as they really are is
called "neurosis."  In the spiritual sense, it is called "suffering."  The
refusal to *stop* and *see* is the root of the problem either way.

At some point, one comes to *recognize* one's own nature.  This
is a complete perspectival shift from consciousness to awareness.  It
does not come through being bound to the traditions, beliefs, or
practices of *any* religion.  It is associated, instead, with the relin-
quishment of all religious pathology.  Whatever is then followed,
believed, or practiced without attachment is no obstruction.  It is
simply the working out of one's kharma within the context of one's
own dharma--as one waits.

This change in point of view (this true *seeing* that comes) is, at
it's heart, a matter not of willing but of willingness.  The initiative
does not rest with the jiva nature itself, yet will not be initiated
absent the jiva's willingness.  Such willingness is not a matter of
personal desire for release from suffering.  It arises from an inner
intent to simply *see* without attachment to the seen.

The struggle against suffering is a psychological quicksand.  The
more one struggles, the more deeply mired one becomes.

>There are also instances like gajendra mokSham, where the elephant
>king is given (krama!) mukti by vaasudeva.

>From this point of view, one *may* say that Ishvara pulls a jiva out
from bondage, after all.  It is another a way of saying that the
initiative lies with Spirit.

Therefore, between the two of us, you and I have now convinced
me of your premise--within the realm of imagic language . . . which
also is maya.

We must take care, eh?  I have been told that one does not *see*
until after one has *stopped* talking (especially to oneself).

Absolute non-duality cannot be approached in the dualistic terms of
language *or* consciousness.

Better (for me, anyway) to *wait* and *watch* for *seeing* to come.
Perhaps Ishvaras and elephant kings may do the same.  I really don't

Respectfully and tentatively submitted with expectation of correction.

Sincere regards,


J. Kingston Cowart, M.S.
San Diego, California
<jkcowart at>

bhava shankara deshikame sharaNam

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