The Riddle of Fate and Free-Will Solved-EYE OPENER
Ganesh Deivashikamani
ganesh_d at HOTMAIL.COM
Fri Apr 30 22:11:02 CDT 1999
>From: MS Suresh <metal at md3.vsnl.net.in>
>To: Ganesh Deivashikamani <ganesh_d at hotmail.com>, sakthi58 at hotmail.com
>Subject: EYE OPENER
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:12:21 +0530
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>GANESH!
>EXCEPTIONAL. OPENED MY EYES. CLARIFIED MY POINT. AND
>BESIDES, I CANT BE SHAKEN FROM THE CONVICTION THAT TIS
>"GODHEAD" THAT MOVES ME...DDHIYO "YO" NAH PRACHODAYATH.
>
>IVE PICKED OUT THE DIRECT RESPONSES TO MY QUESTIONS,
>HEREBELOW:
>
>1) It is not quite correct to say that fate places obstacles
>in the way of free-will. On the other hand, by seeming to
>oppose our efforts, it tells us what is the extent of
>free-will that is necessary now to bear fruit.
>
>2) In other words, there is no question of a relative
>proportion between fate and free-will as distinct factors in
>life. In other words, the relative proportion is only as
>between the intensity of our past action and the intensity
>of our present action.
>
>3) If you do not succeed even after this renewed effort,
>there can be absolutely no justification for despair, for
>fate being but a creation of your free-will can never be
>stronger than your free-will. Your failure only means that
>your present exercise of free-will is not sufficient to
>counteract the result of the past exercise of it.
>
>4) A thing, however, may be unattainable to us at the
>particular stage at which we are, or with the qualifications
>that we possess. The attainability or otherwise of a
>particular thing is thus not an absolute characteristic of
>that thing but is relative and proportionate to our capacity
>to attain it.
>
>WISE WERE OUR SAINTS. MY RESPECTFUL SALUTATIONS.
>SHRI GURUBBHYO NAMAH.
>NAMO-NAMAH SHRI PARAMAHAMSA PARIVAJAKACHARYAYA SHRIMAD
>SHANKARABHAGAVADPADACHARYAYA, IDHAM NAMO-NAMAH.
>NAMO-NAMAH THASMAI SHRI GURUMOORTHAYAE SHRI
>DHAKSHINAMOORTHAYAE NAMO-NAMAH.
>SHIVAYA NAMAH. RUDRAYA NAMAH.
>MS Suresh
>29041999 5am IST.
>___________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>Ganesh Deivashikamani wrote:
> >
> > The Riddle of Fate and Free-Will Solved:
> > >(A dialogue between His Holiness Shri Chandrashekhara Bharati
> > >Mahaswami and a Disciple): [His Holiness was the Sringeri
> > Mathadhipati 1912-1954.]
> > >
> > >H.H. : I hope you are pursuing your studies in the Vedanta as usual?
> > >D. : Though not regularly, I do make some occasional study.
> > >H.H. : In the course of your studies, you may have come across many
> > doubts.
> > >D. : Yes, one doubt repeatedly comes up to my mind.
> > >H.H. : What is it?
> > >D. : It is the problem of the eternal conflict between fate and
> > free-will.
> > > What are their respective provinces and how can the conflict
> > be
> > > avoided?
> > >H.H. : If presented in the way you have done it, the problem would
> > baffle
> > > even the highest of thinkers.
> > >D. : What is wrong with my presentation? I only stated the problem
> > and
> > > did not even explain how I find it to be a difficult one.
> > >H.H. : Your difficulty arises in the very statement of the problem.
> > >D. : How?
> > >H.H. : A conflict arises only if there are two things. There can be
> > no
> > > conflict if there is only one thing.
> > >D. : But here there are two things, fate and free-will.
> > >H.H. : Exacly. It is this assumption of yours that is responsible
> > for your
> > > problem.
> > >D. : It is not my assumption at all. How can I ignore the fact
> > that the
> > > two things exist as independent factors, whether I grant their
> > > existence or not?
> > >H.H. : That is where you are wrong again.
> > >D. : How?
> > >H.H. : As a follower of our Sanatana Dharma, you must know that fate
> > is
> > > nothing extraneous to yourself, but only the sum total of the
> > > results of your past actions.
> > > As God is but the dispenser of the fruits of actions, fate,
> > > representing those fruits, is not his creation but only yours.
> > > Fre-will is what you exercise when you act now.
> > >D. : Still I do not see how they are not two distinct things.
> > >H.H. : Have it this way. Fate is past karma; free-will is present
> > karma.
> > > Both are really one, that is, karma, though they may differ
> > in the
> > > matter of time. There can be no conflict when they are really
> > one.
> > >D. : But the difference in time is a vital difference which we
> > cannot
> > > possibly overlook.
> > >H.H. : I do not want you to overlook it, but only to study it more
> > deeply.
> > > The present is before you and, by the exercise of free-will,
> > you can
> > > attempt to shape it.
> > > The past is past and is therefore beyond your vision and is
> > > rightly called adrishta, the unseen. You cannot reasonably
> > attempt
> > > to find out the relative strength of two things unless both
> > of them
> > > are before you. But, by our very definition, free-will, the
> > present
> > > karma, alone is before you and fate, the past karma, is
> > invisible.
> > > Even if you see two wrestlers right in front of you, you
> > cannot
> > > decide about their relative strength. For, one may have
> > weight, the
> > > other agility; one muscles and the other tenacity; one the
> > benefit of
> > > practice and the other coolness of judgment and so on. We can
> > go on
> > > building arguments on arguments to conclude that a particular
> > > wrestler will be the winner.
> > > But experience shows that each of these qualifications
> > may fail
> > > at any time or may prove to be a disqualification. The only
> > practical
> > > method of determining their relative strength will be to make
> > them
> > > wrestle.
> > > While this is so, how do you expect to find by means of
> > > arguments a solution to the problem of the relative value of
> > fate
> > > and free-will when the former by its very nature is unseen!
> > >D. : Is there no way then of solving this problem?
> > >H.H. : There is this way. The wrestlers must fight with each other
> > and prove
> > > which of them is the stronger.
> > >D. : In other words, the problem of conflict will get solved only
> > at the
> > > end of the conflict. But at that time the problem will have
> > ceased to
> > > have any practical significance.
> > >H.H. : Not only so, it will cease to exist.
> > >D. : That is, before the conflict begins, the problem is incapable
> > of
> > > solution; and, after the conflict ends, it is no longer
> > necessary to
> > > find a solution.
> > >H.H. : Just so. In either case, it is profitless to embark on the
> > enquiry
> > > as to the relative stregth of fate and free-will.
> > >
> > >A Guide
> > >
> > >D. : Does Yor Holiness then mean to say that we must resign
> > ourselves to
> > > fate?
> > >H.H. : Certainly not. On the other hand, you must devote yourself to
> > free-
> > > will.
> > >D. : How can that be?
> > >H.H. : Fate, as I told you, is the resultant of the past exercise of
> > your
> > > free-will. By exercising your free-will in the past, you
> > brought on
> > > the resultant fate.
> > > By exercising your free-will in the present, I want you
> > to wipe
> > > out your past record if it hurts you, or to add to it if you
> > find it
> > > enjoyable.
> > > I any case. whether for acquiring more happiness or for
> > reducing
> > > misery. you have to exercise your free-will in the present.
> > >D. : But the exercise of free-will however well-directed, very
> > often
> > > fails to secure the desired result, as fate steps in and
> > nullifies
> > > the action of free-will.
> > >H.H. : You are again ignoring our definition of fate. It is not an
> > > extraneous and a new thing which steps in to nullify your
> > free-will.
> > > On the other hand, it is already in yourself.
> > >D. : It may be so, but its existence is felt only when it comes
> > into
> > > conflict with free-will. How can we possibly wipe out the past
> > > record when we do not know nor have the means of knowing what
> > it is?
> > >H.H. : Except to a very few highly advanced souls, the past certainly
> > > remains unknown. But even our ignorance of it is very often an
> > > advantage to us.
> > > For, if we happen to know all the results we have
> > accumulated
> > > by our actions in this and our past lives, we will be so much
> > > shocked as to give up in despair any attempt to overcome or
> > mitigate
> > > them. Even in this life, forgetfulnes is a boon which the
> > merciful
> > > God has been pleased to bestow on us, so that we may not be
> > burdened
> > > at any moment with a recollection of all that has happened in
> > the
> > > past.
> > > Similarly, the divine spark in us is ever bright with
> > hope and
> > > makes it possible for us to confidently exercise our free-
> > will. It
> > > is not for us to belittle the significance of these two boons--
> > > forgetfulness of the past and hope for the future.
> > >D. : Our ignorance of the past may be useful in not deterring the
> > exercise
> > > of the free-will, and hope may stimulate that exercise. All
> > the
> > > same, it cannot be denied that fate very often does present a
> > > formidable obstacle in the way of such exercise.
> > >H.H. : It is not quite correct to say that fate places obstacles in
> > the way
> > > of free-will. On the other hand, by seeming to oppose our
> > efforts,
> > > it tells us what is the extent of free-will that is necessary
> > now to
> > > bear fruit.
> > > Ordinarily for the purpose of securing a single benefit,
> > a
> > > particular activity is prescribed; but we do not know how
> > > intensively or how repeatedly that activity has to be pursued
> > or
> > > pesisted in.
> > > If we do not succed at the very first attempt, we can
> > easily
> > > deduce that in the past we have exercised our free-will just
> > in the
> > > opposite direction, that the resultant of that past activity
> > has
> > > first to be eliminated and that our present effort must be
> > > proportionate to that past activity.
> > > Thus, the obstacle which fate seems to offer is just the
> > gauge
> > > by which we have to guide our present activities.
> > >H.H. : The obstacle is seen only after the exercise of our free-
> > will; how
> > > can that help us to guide our activities at the start?
> > >H.H. : It need not guide us at the start. At the start, you must not
> > be
> > > obsessed at all with the idea that there will be any obstacle
> > in
> > > your way.
> > > Start with boundless hope and with the rpesumption that
> > there
> > > is nothing in the way of your exercising the free-will.
> > > If you do not succeed, tell yourself then that there has
> > been
> > > in the past a counter-influence brought on by yourself by
> > exercising
> > > your free-will in the other direction and, therefore, you
> > must now
> > > exercise your free-will with re-doubled vogor and persistence
> > to
> > > achieve your object.
> > > Tell yourself that, inasmuch as the seeming obstacle is
> > of your
> > > own making, it is certainly within your competence to
> > overcome it.
> > > If you do not succeed even after this renewed effort,
> > there can
> > > be absolutely no justification for despair, for fate being
> > but a
> > > creature of your free-will can never be stronger than your
> > free-will.
> > > Your failure only means that your present exercise of
> > free-will
> > > is not sufficient to counteract the result of the past
> > exercise of
> > > it.
> > > In other words, there is no question of a relative
> > proportion
> > > between fate and free-will as distinct factors in life. The
> > relative
> > > proportion is only as between the intensity of our past
> > action and
> > > the intensity of our present action.
> > >D. : But even so, the relative intensity can be realised only at
> > the end
> > > of our present effort in a particular direction.
> > >H.H. : It is always so in the case of everything which is adrishta or
> > > unseen. Take, for example, a nail driven into a wooden
> > pillar. When
> > > you see it for the first time, you actually see, say, an inch
> > of it
> > > projecting out of the pillar. The rest of it has gone into
> > the wood
> > > and you cannot now see what exact length of the nail is
> > imbedded in
> > > the wood. That length, therefore, is unseen or adrishta, so
> > far as
> > > you are concerned. Beautifully varnished as the pillar is,
> > you do
> > > not know what is the composition of the wood in which the
> > nail is
> > > driven. That also is unseen or adrishta.
> > > Now, suppose you want to pull that nail out, can you
> > tell me
> > > how many pulls will be necessary and how powerful each pull
> > has to
> > > be?
> > >D. : How can I? The number and the intensity of the pulls will
> > depend
> > > upon the length which has gone into the wood.
> > >H.H. : Certainly so. And the length which has gone into the wood is
> > not
> > > arbitrary, but depended upon the number of strokes which
> > drove it in
> > > and the intensity of each of such strokes and the resistance
> > which
> > > the wood offered to them.
> > >D. : It is so.
> > >H.H. : The number and intensity of the pulls needed to take out the
> > nail
> > > depend therefore upon the number and intensity of the strokes
> > which
> > > drove it in.
> > >D. : Yes.
> > >H.H. : But the strokes that drove in the nail are now unseen and
> > unseeable.
> > > They relate to the past and are adrishta.
> > >D. : Yes.
> > >H.H. : Do we stop from pulling out the nail simply because we happen
> > to be
> > > ignorant of the length of the nail in the wood or of the
> > number and
> > > intensity of the strokes which drove it in? Or, do we persist
> > in
> > > pulling it out by increasing our effort?
> > >D. : Certainly, as practical men we adopt the latter course.
> > >H.H. : Adopt the same course in every effort of yours. Exert
> > yourself as
> > > much as you can. Your will must succeed in the end.
> > >
> > >Function of Shastras:
> > >
> > >D. : But there certainly are many things which are impossible to
> > attain
> > > even after the utmost exertion.
> > >H.H. : There you are mistaken. There is nothing which is really
> > > unattainable. A thing, however, may be unattainable to us at
> > the
> > > particular stage at which we are, or with the qualifications
> > that we
> > > possess.
> > > The attainability or otherwise of a particular thing is
> > thus
> > > not an absolute characteristic of that thing but is relative
> > and
> > > proportionate to our capacity to attain it.
> > >D. : The success or failure of an effort can be known definitely
> > only at
> > > the end. How are we then to know beforehand whether with our
> > > present capacity we may or may not exert ourselves to attain a
> > > particular object, and whether it is the right kind of
> > exertion for
> > > the attainment of that object?
> > >H.H. : Your question is certainly a pertinent one. The whole aim of
> > our
> > > Dharma Shastras is to give a detailed answer to your question.
> > > Religion does not fetter man's free-will. It leaves him
> > quite
> > > free to act, but tells him at the same time what is good for
> > him and
> > > what is not.
> > > The resposibility is entirely and solely his. He cannot
> > escape it by
> > > blaming fate, for fate is of his own making, nor by blaming
> > God, for
> > > he is but the dispenser of fruits in accordance with the
> > merits of
> > > actions. You are the master of your own destiny. It is for
> > you to
> > > make it, to better it or to mar it. This is your privilege.
> > This is
> > > your responsibility.
> > >D. : I quite realise this. But often it so happens that I am not
> > really
> > > master of myself. I know, for instance, quite well that a
> > particular
> > > act is wrong; at the same time, I feel impelled to do it.
> > Similarly,
> > > I know that another act is right; at the same time, however,
> > I feel
> > > powerless to do it. It seems that there is some power which
> > is able
> > > to control or defy my free-will. So long as that power is
> > potent,
> > > how can I be called the master of my own destiny? Whatis that
> > power
> > > but fate?
> > >H.H. : You are evidently confusing together two distinct things.
> > Fate is a
> > > thing quite different from the other one which you call a
> > power.
> > > Suppose you handle an instrument for the first time. You will
> > do it
> > > very clumsily and with great effort.
> > > The next time, however, you use it, you will do so less
> > > clumsily and with less effort. With repeated uses, you will
> > have
> > > learnt to use it easily and without any effort. That is, the
> > facility
> > > and ease with which you use a particular thing increase with
> > the
> > > number of times you use it.
> > > The first time a man steals, he does so with great
> > effort and
> > > much fear; the next time both his effort and fear are much
> > less. As
> > > opportunities increase, stealing will become a normal habit
> > with him
> > > and will require no effort at all. This habit will generate in
> > him a
> > > tendency to steal even when there is no necessity to steal. It
> > is
> > > this tendency which goes by the name vasana. The power which
> > makes
> > > you act as if against your will is only the vasana which
> > itself is of
> > > your own making. This is not fate.
> > > The punishment or reward, in the shape of pain or
> > pleasure,
> > > which is the inevitable consequence of an act, good or bad, is
> > alone
> > > the province of fate or destiny.
> > > The vasana which the doing of an act leaves behind in
> > the mind
> > > in the shape of a taste, a greater facility or a greater
> > tendency for
> > > doing the same act once again, is quite a different thing. It
> > may be
> > > that the punishment or the reward of the past act is, in
> > ordinary
> > > circumstances, unavoidable, if there is no counter-effort; but
> > the
> > > vasana can be easily handled if only we exercise our free-will
> > > correctly.
> > >D. : But the number of vasanas or tendencies that rule our hearts
> > are
> > > endless. How can we possibly control them?
> > >H.H. : The essential nature of a vasana is to seek expression in
> > outward
> > > acts. This characteristic is common to all vasanas, good and
> > bad.
> > > The stream of vasanas, the vasana sarit, as it is called, has
> > two
> > > currents, the good and the bad.
> > > If you try to dam up the entire stream, there mey be
> > danger.
> > > The Shastras, therefore, do not ask you to attempt that. On
> > the
> > > other hand, they ask you to submit yourself to be led by the
> > good
> > > vasana current and to resist being led away by the bad vasana
> > > current.
> > > When you know that a particular vasana is rising up in
> > your
> > > mind, you cannot possibly say that you are at its mercy. You
> > have
> > > your wits about you and the responsibility of deciding
> > whether you
> > > will encourage it or not is entirely yours.
> > > The Shastras ennciate in detail what vasanas are good
> > and
> > > have to be encouraged and what vasanas are bad and have to be
> > > overcome.
> > > When, by dint of practice, you have made all your
> > vasanas
> > > good and practically eliminated the charge of any bad vasanas
> > > leading you astray, the Shastras take upon themselves the
> > function
> > > of teaching you how to free your free-will even from the need
> > of
> > > being led by good vasanas.
> > > You will gradually be led on to a stage when your free-
> > will
> > > be entirely free from any sort of coloring due to any vasanas.
> > > At that stage, your mind will be pure as crystal and
> > all
> > > motive for particular action will cease to be. Freedom from
> > the
> > > results of particular actions is an inevitable consequence.
> > Both
> > > fate and vasana disappear. There is freedom for ever more and
> > that
> > > freedom is called Moksha.
> > >_____________________________________________________________________
> > _______
> > >
> > > .. shrii shaN^karaarpaNamastu ..
> > >_____________________________________________________________________
> > _______
> > >
> > >From the book, Dialogues with the Guru", compiled by R. Krishnaswamy
> > Aiyar,
> > >published by Shankara Vidya Kendra, Pashchim Marg, Vasant Vihar, New
> > Delhi
> > > 110 057 (pages 140. Price Rs.40).
> > >
> > >Reproduced in Tattvaloka (June/July 1997, pp. 4-10)[The Splendor of
> > Truth]
> > > Abhinav Circle,
> > > 19- Co-perative Colony, Chamiers Road,
> > > Chennai, India, 600 018
> > > Tel. 498-5202 / 466-0023
> > > Fax: 91-44-466-0065
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Sat May 1 17:57:12 1999
Message-Id: <SAT.1.MAY.1999.175712.0400.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:57:12 -0400
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
<ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
<ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
From: Sunder Hattangadi <gourish at INTERNET1.NET>
Subject: Advaita Sadhana- tripaJNchaaN^ga yoga
yamo hi niyamastyaago mauna.n deshashcha kaalataa .
aasanaM muulaba.ndhashcha dehasaamya.n cha dR^iksthitiH .. 102..
praaNasa.nyamana.n chaiva pratyaahaarashcha dhaaraNaa .
aatmadhyaana.n samaadhishcha proktaanyaN^gaani vai kramaat.h .. 103..
yamaH = control of the senses
hi = (expletive)
niyamaH = control of the mind
tyaagaH = renunciation
maunam.h = silence
deshaH = place
cha =and
kaalataa = time
aasanam.h = posture
muulabandhaH = the root that restrains
cha = and
dehasaamyam.h = equipoise of the body
cha = and
dR^iksthitiH = steadiness of vision
praaNasa.nyamanam.h = control of the vital forces
cha = and
eva = also
pratyaahaaraH = self-withdrawal
cha = and
dhaaraNaa concentration
aatmadhyaanam.h = meditation on Atman
samaadhiH = complete absorption
cha = and
proktaani = are described
aN^gaani = the steps
vai (expletive)
kramaat.h = in order
The steps, in order, are described as follows:
1. Control of the senses; 2. the control of the mind; 3. renunciation; 4.
silence; 5. space; 6. time.
7. posture; 8. the restraining root; 9. the equipoise of the body; 10. the
firmness of vision.
11. the control of the vital forces; 12. the withdrawal of the mind; 13.
concentration.
14. self-contemplation; and, 15. complete absorption.
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