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Giridhar giridhar at CHEMENG.IISC.ERNET.IN
Mon Jul 27 23:05:54 CDT 1998


>> Clearly, except for a handful, many in the group seem to have ignored the
>> wisdom quotations posted by Rama.

>There are over 90 members on the list. Of which only a few write
>on a regular basis, others are often silent listeners. You do not
>have enough information to conclude about how well it was
>received and how many good points that were made are being
>followed.  Hence, I think your statement above is incorrect.

Ravi, thanks for pointing this out. Yes, I was wrong. My above statement is
incorrect and not factual. I should say 'Atleast a few in the group *seem
to* have ignored the wisdom quotations posted by Rama.'  I am truly sorry
for the above sentence and apologize to the list members who actually read
and understood quotations on this subject posted by Rama, Vidya and a host
of others.

I stand by the rest of the article. See below on why I felt the article was

1. Regarding, posting from Hindu, the article was not available on the net.
The whole Hindu is not published, only some portions of it are published on
the net, afaik. If you need the exact reference, look up the printed
newspaper. I can quote from similar articles published elsewhere (not just
on NRIs but on deploring standards), but seeing the vehement opposition, I
will not. There is NO copyright violation, if the source is quoted and a
portion is quoted for explanation.

2. Remember, I was a NRI for a long time and the quote applies to a
majority of NRIs, not all.
There is no need to get offended by the article. If you think the statement,
'They leave their motherland with the sole objective of fulfilling their
material ambition, which itself is an antithesis of the true practice of
Hinduism.' does not apply to you, well and good. It applies to a majority
(of not NRIs but to everyone) and does apply to me also. Or if you feel
that fulfilling material ambitions is the true practice of Hinduism, I can
not help it. It does not mean that fulfilling material ambitions by staying
in India is better either. One should feel that spiritual ambitions should
be superior to material ambitions. And one should make an effort to do
that, not use prarabdha as an excuse. Prarabdha should not be used as an
excuse enjoy wordly things.

"The latter part of Shri Ramakrishnan's post
(re ac, house, car, fat paycheck and other so-called modern "conveniences"
or hindrances) can only be interpreted as one's prArabdha karma."

What would a novice like me learn from such a statement ? That I can go on
striving to earn a car, paycheck etc. and blame it on prarabdha instead of
making efforts to reduce my desires by bhakti and sadhana.

Now, maybe there are people who do all these things and have mentally
renounced, but
we can talk only about the majority and novices like me in a discussion.

3. The post was only in response to how Smriti, Shruti, Shankara etc. are
being repeatedly ignored by saying that karma can not be changed. Quote:

"Nothing can be avoided. Like an arrow that has been shot (which will meet
its target), the seeds for these actions have been sown long ago and we

are seeing the fruits of that action or omission."

See Vidya's article in the archives, or Swami Vishvarupananda's article
which quotes the HH of Sringeri on 'Fate versus free will." or see numerous
posts by Rama with several quotes of RM and HH on how important is free
will and need for effort is.

4. The point is not to offend anyone by such articles, but to point out
what Shankara and other people have said. We simply can not ignore their
statements and blame it on prarabdha and deny free will while continuing to
enjoy sense pleasures and renouncing nitya karma.

5. Regarding talking from the paramarthika plane, I would like to quote
from the first chapter
of 1st chapter of Kularnava Tantra.

"Talk not of the paramarthika as long as there be desire, attachment and
activity of the
senses. Talk of it not as long as there be the agitation of exertion,
activity of thoughts and
the mind is not steady. Talk not of it as long as you are identified with
the body, as long as there is the ego-feeling."

6. Finally, if one truly believes in lack of free will, then why does one
get agitated about my posts ? Blame it on my prarabdha and ignore me.


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