Non-reality or the world
Thatte, Uday (NM IT)
Uday.Thatte at NMB.NORWEST.COM
Tue Oct 14 17:04:05 CDT 1997
I instantly agree with what Ram Chandran has written in a very logical and
So, if mr^ga stops running after the mirage (i.e. sanyasa) without being
fully convinced about the falsehood of it, it runs a risk of never ever
seeing the TRUTH. And eventhough It might appear to be tranquil it may have
to face an occasional doubt that the mirage may be water and that thought
might be very painful.
At the same time, merely running after the mirage is not going to gift this
knowledge. The realization will come only when the mr^ga will repeatedly
observe and evaluate its imagination as against its real experience.
However, the time required to reach a conclusion can vary from mr^ga to
mr^ga depending on each one's ability (and willingness) to think deep and
hard in abstraction and extrapolate on past experience. That's how we see
different people in different stages of the pursuit. Some have a great
imagination and some have little.
However, it is important to be TOTALLY convinced before stopping the chase.
>From ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU Wed Oct 15 07:03:49 1997
Message-Id: <WED.15.OCT.1997.070349.0400.ADVAITAL at TAMU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:03:49 -0400
Reply-To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: sadananda <sada at ANVIL.NRL.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Non-reality of the world
Comments: To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <19971014212732.16354.qmail at hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>If a jnaani sees thoughts, there itself duality exists. Then,how can he
It is not the duality that is the problem. Taking the duality as reality is
the problem. JNaani sees the duality just as scientist sees the sun raise
and sun set yet he is fully aware that sun neither raises nor sets. From
the point of fundamental particles of matter, food and garbage are the
same. But that universal understanding does not make us eat garbage and
throw the food. This is what is meant by vyaavaharika satyam. Gold chain
and gold ring are nothing but Gold. A gold merchant may not care for the
difference. But chain is a chain and ring is ring. Their utilities are
different. Hence it is not the duality that is the problem it is the
misunderstanding that the duality is real and not apparent is the problem.
One plus many apparent is not many but still one.
JNaani sees the thoughts and when he sees the thoughts he knows in his mind
just the way as Krishna declares-
mayaatatam idam sarvam jagadavyakta muurthina
masthaani sarva bhuutaani na chaaham teswavasthitaH| (9-3)
I pervade this entire universe in an unmanifested form
all bhutaas (pancha bhutaas as well as their by products) are in me but I
am not in them, in the sense that their pariNaama or modifications do not
belong to me.
JNaani sees the thoughts in him, they are in his consciousness. Actually
not only in JNaani even in AJNaani too. Thoughts cannot be away from
consciousness, if so we cannot be conscious of them. In fact thought is
nothing but (as though) a wave of consciouness. Just as the water pervades
every wave, in totality; same is the consciouness. I donot have to supress
the wave to see the water. Water is the wave - it cannot be water + wave
as duality. Yet each wave is differnt. The plurality is only apparent
plurality. Water + many waves is just water from water point. That is
what is meant by adhyaasa - a superimpostion.
Identifying with the name and form each wave thinks it is different. But
that notion is due to ignorence. It is only a notion and not a fact.
Shankara says I think dR^idR^isha viveka:
anthar dR^ik dR^isyayor bhedam
bahischa brahma swargayoH|
saa samsaarasya kaaraNam||
The distinction between the seer and the seen in the mind and the
distinction between the creation and the creator outside is due to delusary
power of maaya and is the root cause for our suffering.
Because of maayaa, we take the distinction as real.
>If intellect is the first obstacle to realize TRUTH , then
>how can we "realize" TRUTH?
Please note that intellect is not an obstacle. Mind is not an obstacle.
Body is not an obstacles. The obstacels is the our notion that I am the
body, I am the mind and I am the intellect - that is the aJNaana. The
truth is they are in me I am not in them. The modifications of body,
mind and intellect are not my modifications. I am the consciouness that
pervade everything, including all modifications since I am aware of them.
By the by, this misunderstanding is in the mind or intellect only.
ahankaara is also a thought in the intellect. It is the mind and intellect
that need to be reeducated not the self. Self is ever effulgent illumining
even this aJNaana.
Please note that even this illumination is also apparent. It appears to
those who see! Otherwise I am one without a second even to illumine!
I hope this clarrifies.
Madhavan - I saw your message on my box. Feel free to call me any time if
I can be of help in clarifying the concepts.
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington D.C. 20375
>From Wed Oct 15 07:35:01 1997
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:35:01 -0400
Reply-To: chandran at tidalwave.net
To: "Advaita (non-duality) with reverence" <ADVAITA-L at TAMU.EDU>
From: Ram Chandran <chandran at TIDALWAVE.NET>
Subject: Is illusion an illusion?
Comments: To: Advaita List <advaita-l at tamu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is illusion an illusion?
Illusion or "Maayaa" means that which is not absolutely real but which
has the power to appear as real. Sankara explains maayaa as "yaa maa
saa maayaa," meaning, 'that which is not is maayaa.'
Brahman is the absolute truth, the universe is a myth: Brahma Satyam,
Maayaa has two powers: the power to conceal the truth and the power to
present something else to our perception. The former is called aavarana
sakti (concealing power) and the latter vikshepa sakti (projecting
By definition, Illusion is that which can't be explained by
intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to learn and the proficiency
to manipulate one's environment. Did intelligence exist at the time of
An answer of yes means that intelligence is beyond human existence and
hence can't be explained!
An answer of no will imply the absence of intelligence at the time of
birth! Human actions become spontaneous and independent of
intelligence! Such an intelligence is self-contradictory and hence
can't be explained!
In either case, we can't explain intelligence! Consequently intelligence
is an illusion and illusion is also an illusion!
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