[Advaita-l] SADHANA - The different Paths
kamesh_ccmb at yahoo.co.in
Thu Jan 18 12:37:29 EST 2018
Dear Sir, Yes indeed, As our understanding should start from this as you said correct :
"this is where the shakti comes in - that by this great gift from the guru, the knowledge can arise in the student of himself"
To awaken /raise the knowledge or consciousness in the student, Guru acts as the medium via shakti.This concept was supported by today's Times, speaking tree article. It goes like this:
Zen Masters just gives instructions to their students in silence, it is something like that sword cutting all the ropes that bind you (similar to shakti peircing through all the chakra's from muladhara to sahasrata, for which guru has to initiate the disciple first, then only it is possible the cutting of all the bondages by sadhana with the help of mother-kundalini)
Where as Zen doesn't talk about any great principles, doesn't follow any rituals, it has no mantra, but it simply creates the device and leave you to find the way out. This concept is very much successful, if something doesn't succeed, it means the device was not right. One has also should look deeper into the potential of the person. One device may work better in one person & it may fail in some other person.
Zen is very small stream, is pure essence, un-polluted, un-correupted by any non-essentials.One can't take away anything from Zen Master. It is only a declaration of your self-nature. Neither you can add anything to Zen (if so it is artificial only) nor you can take anything from Zen. They works in NATURE.
In Zen Mindis an animal heritage and unless you go beyond mind, you are not authentic human being. Just your body is that of a human being, but your mind is very long process of four million years of animals. You are not new comers, you are old, as old as the time life's existed on this earth and your have been passed through all the phases of animals. Your consciousness carried a tremendous past. It is re-awakened or re-charged by the zen masters to their disiciples. Source: OSHO
On Thursday, 18 January 2018 1:21 PM, Ryan Armstrong <ryanarm at gmail.com> wrote:
Once again, Namaskaras
Firstly, when you say "knowledge" what is being referred to?I ask since English fails us here, the same word being used for different concepts...
In the Taittiriiya Upanishad, the first part involves grammar and more specifically, the joinings of different sounds, or संहिता.It describes the 5 महासंहिता.One of these states:अथाधिविद्यम् । आचार्यः पूर्वरूपम् अन्तेवास्युत्तररूपम् । विद्या सन्धिः । प्रवचनं सन्धानम्
"Here begins (thhe meditation on) knowledge. The teacher is the first letter, The student is the last letter, Knowledge is the meeting-place, instruction is the link"
This does not seem to show that there is a transfer of knowledge, but rather an arising of it during instruction.
Now it is interesting that the English word "knowledge" is the translation of विद्या the dhatu of which is विद्
In the second book, the upanishad declares:सत्यं ज्ञानमनन्तं ब्रह्म
And Gambhirananda translates this as "Brahman is Truth, knowledge and infinite"Now, the English word "knowledge" is the translation of ज्ञानम् - dhatu ज्ञाAnd in the bhaashya, Shankara explains how this statement can be broken into 3 sentences, one of which is "ज्ञानम् ब्रह्म" - The Brahman is Knowledge.
So the word knowledge could refer to विद्या, or ज्ञानम्.When I posted that guru "knows (innately) अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि", I was using know in the sense of ज्ञानम्.And if "ज्ञानम् ब्रह्म" then surely the "knowledge" is already in the student but the student is ignoring it.Hence the term ignorance - to ignore the knowledge of One's True Nature.Perhaps then, this is where the shakti comes in - that by this great gift from the guru, the knowledge can arise in the student of himself.
Such is my understanding anyway, and I would appreciate any errors in the reasoning to be pointed out.
Yours in TruthRyan
On 16 January 2018 at 15:58, KAMESWARARAO MULA <kamesh_ccmb at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
Dear Sir, Although I have expressed my views on 'Guru', but i feel that I may be too small to comment on that as I am just beginner in the path of self-realization.
As Sh. Ryan Ji Says that " गुरु refers to one who has realized the Truth and knows (innately) अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि"
But What I want to understand that what makes a Guru to transfer the Knowledge to the needy disciple? (this is not applicable to acharya/teacher)
Any learned members or seniors of the list, please put your views so that we can understand our selves better.
What is the driving force by which 'Guru' transmits his shakti or siddhi /knowledge to the Sishya? how the disciple is his knowledge son?
What makes do this? and knowing this is the objective of my life
Today I exists on this earth and could able to stand on my feet due to the grace of my Guru only as he is immortal on this karma bhumi.
Na Guror-adhikam tattvam na Guror-adhikam tapah Tattva-gyanat-param nasti tasmai Shri Gurave Namah
Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah
On Tuesday, 16 January 2018 12:57 PM, Ryan Armstrong <ryanarm at gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Sri Belavadi
In my understanding, the term गुरु refers to one who has realised the Truth and knows (innately) अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि.Manu says something about this as being the difference between an आचर्य and a गुरु. (I shall have to find the reference if needed.)The guru knows who he is and instructs the student as to how the student may reach the same realisation.
As such, the guru IS the Absolute.So I would say that it is quite redundant to say "immortal guru" since the guru must be immortal in the first place for the title to be used.
Of course, this is within व्यवहार.In the final verse of तत्त्वोपदेष (ascribed to aadi shankara) states नाद्वैतं गुरुणा सह - There is no advaita between the guru (and the student).The guru exists while in ignorance and the seeker needs assistance to dispel the ignorance.Once ignorance is dispelled, the truth that only Brahman exists is known, and distinction of teacher/student falls away.
Yours in TruthRyan
On 16 January 2018 at 08:34, Belavadi Shankar via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita- vedanta.org> wrote:
Where can anyone find an 'immortal' GURU?
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ryanarm at gmail.com
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ryanarm at gmail.com
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