[Advaita-l] Shankara and DrishTi-SrishTi vAda - eka jeeva vaada

[Aurobind Padiyath]

Pranams Sri Venkatraghavanji,
I can understand from what you replied that you are trying to explain from
the vyavahAra. Here what I've to tell is that if we try for an answer from
paradrshti we will get into anavasta. But if we approach the same from
Atmadrshti then only it will become apAroksha anubhava. Until then the
observer will not include himself in the whole picture.
My contention is from this view point and not a VAda or prati vAda.
Regards,
Aurobind

On Mon, 9 May 2016 17:41 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Aurobind,
> Absolutely - from a paramArtha standpoint, that is undoubtedly the case.
> However, we are talking about a vAda here, whose purpose is to offer an
> explanation of vyavahAra and reconcile that with paramArtha, while leading
> the enquirer to that paramArtha.
>
> You will admit that both the drishti aspect and srishti aspect of DSV are
> in the realm of vyavahAra only. So from the very name of the vAda, one
> starts off from vyavahAra.
>
> It's from that vyavahAra standpoint that I asked the question. In drishti
> srishti vAda, if jIva is the srishTi kartA, is there an Ishvara too? The
> answer, from Siddhanta Bindu, is yes. If so, what is His role in vyavahAra?
>
> Here is my attempt at an answer: The jIva, in creating the universe with
> his drishTi is Ishvara, and the same entity, in thinking he is limited, is
> jIva. Neither srishTi, nor drishTi, nor the apparent limitation of one and
> the apparent limitless powers of the other, is fact. What is fact is
> shuddha chaitanyam only. Anyway, that is how I reconcile this, it may or
> may not appeal to others.
>
> I was looking for some references from AchAryas that confirm or deny this
> understanding.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
> On 9 May 2016 10:35 a.m., "Aurobind Padiyath" <aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Pranams Sri Venkatraghavanji,
>>
>> You missed out the word "Apparent".
>>
>> In reality there is none. "JIvobrahmAiva nAparA".
>> Hence your questions,
>> Is Ishvara something the jIva should aim for?
>> Answer : No. In reality there is no JIva nor Ishvara. Hence no difference
>>
>> The tat pada vAchyaArtha to direct enquiry towards?
>> Answer:  Only truth is Tat Tvam ""asi""
>> When in reality always there is no you and something else and only  "Tat"
>> is always.  How can you aim for it?
>> All those engagement is in our waking which has equal status of dream.
>> So all that is required is to have this jnAnam and it has to be a drdha
>> jnAnam of our waking status like the dehAtma buddhi. So that our
>> bandhamokSha MithyA vichAra vanishes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Aurobind
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 9 May 2016 13:53 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sri Aurobind,
>>> Here the upAdhi is only one, hence the question.
>>>
>>> Madhusudana Sarasvati in Siddhanta Bindu when talking about eka jIva /
>>> DS vAda, says that pure consciousness (the original) with avidyA upAdhi is
>>> Ishvara, with jIva as the reflection of the consciousness in avidyA. He
>>> also provides an alternative definition of Ishvara  - pure consciousness
>>> not limited by avidyA is Ishvara, and pure consciousness limited by avidyA
>>> is jIva.
>>>
>>> So it follows that DSV/eka jIva vAda is not nirIshvara vAda. However,
>>> with the jIva as the nimitta/upAdAna kAraNa for srishti, it is not clear
>>> what is Ishvara's role in this vAda.
>>>
>>> Is Ishvara something the jIva should aim for? The tat pada vAchyaArtha
>>> to direct enquiry towards?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>> On 9 May 2016 5:35 a.m., "Aurobind Padiyath" <
>>> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> To my understanding it is similar to water in a glass and that of
>>>> ocean. Apparently different due to UpAdhi-s. But not in reality from the
>>>> point of water.
>>>> The stories of Jeevanmukthas are only to encourage or create the
>>>> bhAvanA of such a state. In reality there is none. When the waking itself
>>>> is "Devasya Esha SvabhavoYam" where can be such a state in reality?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Aurobind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2016 09:42 Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sri Anand Hudli ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the references. I agree 100%.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, is it right to say that Ishvara is
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) also avidyAkrita by me the jIva, is he just aupachArika?
>>>>> 2) Or is he as real as me the jIva, only not limited by avidyA upAdhi?
>>>>> 3) Or is he just me, the jIva and the words jIva and Ishvara are
>>>>> synonymous, and Ishvara dharmA: like sarvajnatA are just
>>>>> superimpositions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, all jIvan mukti shAstra and stories of jIvan muktAs must be
>>>>> just
>>>>> that, stories? I am OK with that, but wanted to confirm if that
>>>>> conclusion
>>>>> is justified in this vAda.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>> On 9 May 2016 3:40 a.m., "Anand Hudli via Advaita-l" <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Shri Sadanandaji, Shri Venkatraghavanji, Shri Bhaskarji, and
>>>>> others,
>>>>>
>>>>> I read your messages expressing concerns about jIva taking on the role
>>>>> of
>>>>> creating the world. However, MadhusUdana Sarasvati, a strong proponent
>>>>> of
>>>>> the ekajIvavAda has this to say in the siddhAnta bindu:
>>>>> mukhyo vedAntasiddhAntaH ekajIvavAdAkhyaH| imameva
>>>>> dRShTisRShTivAdamAcakShate| asminshca pakShe jIva eva svAjnAnavashAt
>>>>> jagadupAdAnaM nimittaM ca| dRshyaM sarvaM prAtItikam|
>>>>>
>>>>> This ekajIvavAda is the main siddhAnta of vedAnta. It is also called
>>>>> dRShTisRShTivAda. In this theory, the jIva itself is the material and
>>>>> efficient cause of the world, due to its own ignorance. All perceived
>>>>> objects are illusory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who is this single jIva that creates the world? The VivaraNa prameya
>>>>> saMgraha of BhAratI tIrtha gives this conclusive and unambiguous reply:
>>>>>
>>>>> tathAhi- yastvaM mAM prati bandhamokShavyavasthAM pRcchasi sa tvameka
>>>>> eva
>>>>> sarvakalpanAdhiShThAnabhUtashcidekarasa AtmA, tvadanye muktA mucyamAnA
>>>>> mokShyamANAshca sarve jIvAH tvadavidyayA svapna iva kalpitAH
>>>>>
>>>>> To you who ask us about the scheme of the bound and liberated, (we
>>>>> say) you
>>>>> alone are that jIva, the source of imagination of the entire world,
>>>>> wholly
>>>>> the essence of Consciousness, Atman. Other than you, the liberated,
>>>>> being
>>>>> liberated, and going to be liberated jIvas are all creations of your
>>>>> avidyA
>>>>> like in a dream.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as being branded as Buddhists, we should not have that concern,
>>>>> because shrIharSha says in the khaNDana-khaNDa-khAdya:
>>>>>
>>>>> evaM ca sati saugatabrahmavAdinorayaM visheShaH- yadAdimaH
>>>>> sarvamevAnirvacanIyaM varNayati ...vijnAnavyatiriktaM punaridaM vishvaM
>>>>> sadasadbhyAM vilakShaNaM brahmavAdinaH saMgirante|
>>>>>
>>>>> This being so, the difference between Buddhists and BrahmavAdins
>>>>> (vedAntins) is that the former hold everything to be anirvacanIya ,
>>>>> while
>>>>> the BrahmavAdins hold everything *except Brahman* to be anirvacanIya,
>>>>> i.e.
>>>>> different from sat and asat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anand
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>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Aurobind
>>>>
>>> --
>>
>> Aurobind
>>
> --

Aurobind