[Advaita-l] Question? - Is Guru necessary?
rameshramanan at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Jan 31 03:02:32 CST 2016
Dear Sadanandaji,It is surprising that of all persons, you should be posting this question. But let me state Sri Ramana's views on the subject. He says that the real Guru is not apart from one's inner Self. The outer Guru pushes the Sadhaka inwards into the spiritual heart, while the inner Guru pulls the sadhaka inwards. (push and pull).
My understanding of this statement of Sri Ramana: If the sadhaka does not feel that he is being pushed inwards towards his inner core by the external guru, then that external person is not really fit or sufficient to be the Guru. Similarly, if he does not feel that he has been pulled inward, that means, his sadhanas have been insufficient and wrongly directed. If the chosen external guru is not sufficient, it is not wrong to change Gurus, as Sri Balarama Reddy had asked Sri Ramana Maharishi, whether he could change his guru, as he had accepted Sri Aurobindo as his Guru earlier. Sri Ramana had said very emphatically, yes, there is no problem in changing Gurus. So, one need not cling onto a physical guru, if he is . not fit or sufficient to be a Guru, provided that you have lived with him and followed and tested his teachings at least for sometime (this time concept is a major issue). The Guru Gita also warns that a disciple of a blind fellow will also suffer the same fate as that of a blind fellow. Hence, one should follow only a really qualified Guru and not an unfit book-learned master. Sri Ramana and Sri Ramakrishna could transmit their spiritual power to their disciples. I do not know of any of the present day Gurus who can perform such real spiritual miracles that transforms the lives of their disciples for ever . Sri A.R.Natarajan of RMCL, Bangalore, has written a very very excellent book, Ramana Maharishi-The Living Guru.
I would very much like for you to read this book. You can find it at Giri Trading Agency in Mumbai and other branches, if you live outside Bangalore and if you are in Bangalore, you can look at www.ramanacentre.com/www.ramanacentre.org phones: 080-23512639, 23514930, 23360799 Email: office at ramancentre.com
Pranams and regards, Ramesh Ramanan
On Sunday, 31 January 2016, 11:48, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
I agree with your assertions. Yes I am aware of shastra's injuncitons - starting with Mundaka - gurum EVA abhigacchet..and Krishna's statement - tat viddhi praNipaatena.., etc. and also need of a sampradaaya teacher.
The reason I posed the questions is for many reasons. We have now many lists - particularly on facebook - advaitins, neo advatins and Ramana maharhsi's groups, JK groups, etc., etc There is explosion of the lists and means of communication.
Some claim that we need is experience of oneness - or Meditation even after studying Vedanta one has to meditate to experience the oneness, some just think one has to inquire just - who am I? no need to study Vedanta for that which is all intellectual stuff, etc, etc.
Some claim that my teacher is realized and he is not a Vedantin or not studied vedanta.
Some think it is just objectless awareness that one has to abide in it by dissolving all thoughts.
Now so many talks available on line on vedanta itself - including from sampradaaya teachers. Now why do I need a particular teacher or guru which is not possible in this age where there is not many gurukula systems.
Of course the other reason is I was posing a question, particularly to advaitin list where they are many silent members (close to 2000+) where we do not hear and we are not even sure whether they are here or not; and to see what their personal accounts arecas they are obviously interested in Adviata (as they have subscribed to the list) and how they are able to gain this knowledge if not via these list discussions.
Recently a hat of main moderator has been put on my head and I am trying to find whether all those subscribed are still there and who are really interested or still interested in the list serve, and if they would like to be out of the list too as for Advaita knowledge - shravana, manana and nidhidhyaasa are the only means.
On Sat, 1/30/16, Praveen R. Bhat <bhatpraveen at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Question? - Is Guru necessary?
To: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>, "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Cc: "advaitin" <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, January 30, 2016, 12:34 PM
I'll keep the response short and paraphrase
some of the related quotations, which are quite self-
explanatory for the most part.
First and foremost-- jnAnaM nAsti guruM
AchAryavAn labhate jnAnam
paNDitopi shAstrAnveShaNaM svataH na kuryAt
The word svAdhyAyaH in the context of Vedanta
is not svena adhyAya, study by oneself, but svasya adhyAyaH,
study about oneself, as taught by Guru.
Finally, not having a Guru means not having a
sampradAya and about such a person, Bhagavatpadacharya
says-- asampradAyavit mUrkhavat upekShaNIyaH.
I think Bhashyakara says somewhere that
it's not that Arjuna had doubts about Bhagavan Krishna
being an avatAra, but he asks nonetheless for the benefit of
others. Similarly, being an Acharya yourself, you surely
know that there are a few gurukulams, as well as many
shrotriya teachers available in flesh and blood for a
serious seeker. Yet you ask for lokasaMgraha. praNAm.
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