[Advaita-l] Fwd: Unreality of the world and samsaara..

[H S Chandramouli]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unreality of the world and samsaara..
To: Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>


Dear Sri Venkat Raghavan,

There is no " mystical " element. But " intuitive " , yes. Meaning of "
intuitive " meant is " aparoksha " only. Just as we say understanding of
the word " I " is intuitive. Not through any pramana , whether pratyaksha
or inference or shabda. Mere understanding/ knowledge ( paroksha ) is
definitely not sufficient.  We can study or learn or listen to talks by
experts etc any number of times or on any number of texts , Shruti/Smriti
included. We see for ourselves so many of them. Well none is a Jnani merely
due to such learning. I quote the well known verse from Vivekachudamani (
60 )

<< vagvaikhari shabdajhari shastravyakhyanakaushalam I

     vaidushyam vidusham tadvad bhuktaye na tu muktaye >>

translation (Sri Shankaranarayanan )

<< Skill in fluent speech , the proficiency in explaining the sastras , the
scholarship of the learned , all make only for personal enjoyment but not
for liberation >> .

I hope I have understood your observation correctly and responded
satisfactorily.

Regards

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sri Chandramouli
>
> >> But according to Advaita , this is not something to be just understood
> ( the way we study and understand any other subject ), but something to
> be realized intuitively ( aparoksha ).
>
> Just wanted to clarify here - aparoksha gyAna, stated several times by
> Swami ParamarthAnanda is simply knowledge about the true nature of myself.
> There is no "mystical" element or "intuition".
>
> There is a chance that as used in that statement, it could be wrongly
> interpreted that understanding or knowledge is insufficient, which I
> understand to eminently not to be.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:24 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sri Santosh Rao,
>>
>>
>>  Reg your first query
>>
>>
>>  << If the world / universe is ultimately unreal, is the proper
>> understanding as per advaita to infer that samsaara is not really
>> happening, but only appearing to do so? >> ,
>>
>>
>>  I do not think this is the complete understanding of Advaita. No doubt
>> this is part of the ultimate conclusion ( Tatparya ) of Advaita Sidhanta ,
>> the other part being the identity of Brahman and Jiva . But according to
>> Advaita , this is not something to be just understood ( the way we study
>> and understand any other subject ), but something to be realized
>> intuitively ( aparoksha ). Advaita prescribes a specific sadhana marga to
>> achieve this. As part of this marga, the sadhaka must first get
>> eligibility
>> ( adhikaritva ) to undertake the later part of the sadhana which is
>> shravana, manana and nididhyasana. During the first part ( gaining
>> adhikaritva ) , the ulti mate conclusion ( that the samsara is unreal )
>> could no doubt to be kept in the background , but all actions have to be
>> undertaken as per the rules laid down in the scriptures which implies that
>> the sadhaka should assume the creation to be real at least temporarily. He
>> should thus become a sadhanachatushtaya sampanna which gives him the
>> eligibility to undertake the later portion of the sadhana. During this
>> period the sadhaka considers the creation to be real ( which comes
>> naturally to him ) . Thus the second part of your first query
>>
>>
>>  << If this is correct, how exactly is this apparently "real" order of
>> karma,
>> cause, and effect to be understood? How can we logically differentiate
>> between good and bad actions that will lead to good and bad future births
>> if good and bad don't exist to begin with within a system that doesn't
>> exist to begin with? >>
>>
>>
>>  is not valid till such eligibility is obtained .
>>
>>
>>  Regards.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Santosh Rao via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Pranams, 2 questions...
>> >
>> > 1) If the world / universe is ultimately unreal, is the proper
>> > understanding as per advaita to infer that samsaara is not really
>> > happening, but only appearing to do so?
>> >
>> > If this is correct, how exactly is this apparently "real" order of
>> karma,
>> > cause, and effect to be understood? How can we logically differentiate
>> > between good and bad actions that will lead to good and bad future
>> births
>> > if good and bad don't exist to begin with within a system that doesn't
>> > exist to begin with?
>> >
>> > 2) Is Maya eternal like Brahman? What is it's exact nature? A link to a
>> > previous discussion regarding this topic would be appreciated, I don't
>> see
>> > a way to search the archives.
>> >
>> > Thx,
>> >
>> > Santosh
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