[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Fwd: What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa vR^itti?
H S Chandramouli
hschandramouli at gmail.com
Tue Jul 28 01:45:55 CDT 2015
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa
To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Sri Sadananda Ji,
Basically the discussion so far pertained to what is presented in Vedanta
Paribhasha and Advaita Sidhi. Very different from what you have considered
here. I may be wrong.
Pranams and Regards
On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:15 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Just for some thought, but not to confuse.
> There are several aspects involved - pramaa vs bhramaa, smRiti and
> perception, and whether smRiti comes under separate pramaana. Anandaji also
> brought in - the internal perceptions - such as emotions- anger, happiness,
> or certain moods of the mind.
> Looking from a rational point - The perception for the first time (I think
> V. Advaita - classifies as indeterminate - not sure about tarkikaas) there
> is no role of smRiti. and no jaati also here. When a child sees a cow for
> the first time, a white cow, and mother says - my dear this is a cow- now
> the cognition of cow and knowledge of the cognition as cow, as supported by
> aapta vaakya follows - otherwise just cognition of an object without a
> name. Here pramaa and pramaata are involved at antaHkarana level. From my
> point, all cognitions are attributive in the sense that senses can only
> gather (reflective) attributes of the object perceived since original
> attributes are inseparable from their locus - and vishaya - the cow remains
> fortunately outside!
> The first cognition forms a memory sometimes being referred to as
> samskaara or vaasaana, hence part of kaaraNa shareera - this may be called
> as avidyaa vRitti.
> When the child sees another cow which is black, and the mother says this
> is also cow, - cognition, recognition as well as instincts of jaati are
> coming into play.
> Hence even in perception for the second time on - smRiti is coming into
> picture in recognition part. Hence perception involves both cognition and
> recognition to some extent or memory is playing a role in the knowledge.
> Hence avidhyaa vRitti or vaasana samskaara coming in the recognition
> process and not a cognitive level.Hence we have both antaHkarana vRitti and
> avidyaa vRitti due to vaasanaas or samskaara or memory.
> In the sRiti alone without cognition - as someone remembering a cow - then
> there is no cognition but only internal perception - if we call this as
> Bhranti comes when the cognition is incomplete (since cognition is mostly
> attributive and attributives are incomplete due to absence of required
> secondary conditions such as light etc) and smRitti say snake while seeing
> a rope.
> smRiti is some have classified as antaHkarana vRitti while some others as
> avidya or kaarNa shareera vRitit.
> With jaati only the general attribute say cowness of the cow comes into
> picture - this happens only after second perhaps reinforced
> cognition-recognition cycle.
> Hari Om!
> On Mon, 7/27/15, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Subject: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as
> against antaHkaraNa vR^itti?
> To: "Anand Hudli" <anandhudli at hotmail.com>, "A discussion group for
> Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Monday, July 27, 2015, 11:32 PM
> Dear Sri Anand Ji,
> Is not sopadika bhranti (
> सोपाधिक भ्रान्ति ) considered
> avidya vritti ,
> even though it can be
> classified as objective knowledge ? Please clarify.
> Regards and Pranams
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 11:10
> PM, Anand Hudli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > An attempt to
> answer some questions.
> > The difference
> between objective knowledge and subjective knowledge lies
> > the capability of the former type of
> knowledge to be *directly*
> (aparokSheNa) conveyed or used in dealings (vyavahAra) with
> people other
> > than the person who has
> this knowledge. For example, if you see a pot, you
> > may point it out to others, "this is
> a pot", and they too will have the
> same direct perception of the pot. On the other hand, if you
> feel happy,
> > you cannot *directly*
> convey this feeling to me. There is no way for me to
> > *directly* feel what you are feeling. You
> may express your feeling with
> > some act,
> words, etc. that allows me to understand your feeling, but
> > only gives me an *indirect*
> knowledge. Coming to illusions such as a
> > silver-nacre, the advaitasiddhi holds that
> two cognitions are involved
> > here. In
> the (erroneous) cognition, "this is silver", the
> "this" (idam)
> > part is
> objective, but the "silver" (rajatam) part is
> subjective. Why? When
> > a person seeing
> illusory silver says, "this is silver", another
> person in
> > the vicinity will certainly
> see some object as the first person did, but
> > he/she may not see the object as silver.
> It is possible the second person
> > is not
> affected by the illusion, and may, in fact, see the nacre,
> > silver. So the agreement between
> the first person and the second person is
> > that there is "something" out
> there. The knowledge of "something" is
> > objective and is common to both persons.
> However, the knowledge of "silver"
> > is restricted to the first person who is
> affected by the illusion. The
> > second
> person may have the knowledge of nacre, not silver. This is
> why it
> > is said avidyAvRtti can be
> prAtibhAsika or vyAvahArika.
> > If we look
> "under the hood" and try to understand what is
> > vRtti and what is
> avidyAvRtti, it is important to note that objective
> > knowledge, called "pramA", is
> gained through a pramANa (means of knowledge,
> > such as perception, inference, scriptures,
> etc), while subjective
> > knowledge,
> including the prAtibhAsika type, is not so obtained. In the
> > of subjective knowledge, the
> witness-consciousness (sAkShicaitanya)
> cognizes it without the need for antaHkaraNavRtti. In
> contrast, objective
> > knowledge gained
> through a pramANa results in the modification of the
> > antaHkaraNa (mind), called
> antaHkaraNavRtti. MahamahopAdhyAya Abhyankar has
> > remarked in his commentary on the
> siddhAntabindu (dashashlokI):
> apramAjnAnaM na manovRttirUpaM kiMtu avidyAvRttirUpaM
> > Anand
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