[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Bhamati - Vivarana - Differences

[Ravisankar Mayavaram]

In the same context, please also see:

1. Brief summary of differences:
http://ambaa.org/pdf/bhamati-vivarana-differences-brief.pdf

2. Points of Difference Between Bhamati and Vivarana,  Based on the Bhumika
of Polagam Sri Rama Sastri, as explained by Dr. Mani Dravid Sastrigal  and
translated by S.N.Sastri.

 http://ambaa.org/pdf/bhamati-vivarana-diff_mds_sns.pdf

 http://ambaa.org/pdf/bhamati_vivarana_diff_mds_sns_formatted.pdf


I received these documents a while ago from Late Sri Sundararaman mama, I
might have shared these with Advaita-L before.  Formatted version has no
new content, I did  that for my ease of reading.


Ravi

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 11:51 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Here is a link to an old post:
>
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/advaitin/conversations/messages/55766
>
> One can see there a gist of a paper presented by Vidwan Mani Dravid
> Sastriṇaḥ on the positions of the Bhāmati and the Vivaraṇa.
>
> regards
> subrahmanian.v
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 2:18 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Sri Anand Hudliji,
> >
> >
> >  You wrote Though both the mind and shabda are accepted by the two
> > schools, the debate here is about which of the two - mind or shabda,
> yields
> > direct realization. The BhAmatI holds that shabda can only give us
> indirect
> > realization.
> >
> >
> >  In other words Bhamati holds that only the mind gives us direct
> > realization. According to the Bhashya of Sri Bhagavatpada shabda leads to
> > realization in respect of svaprakasha Atman/Brahman by removing the
> > obstruction/ajnana which is hindering such realization. Realization is
> due
> > to the svaprakasha nature of Atman/Brahman. But when it is held , as in
> > Bhamati , that mind gives us direct realization, is it not tantamount to
> > saying that mind itself directly reveals Atman/Brahman leading to direct
> > realization. It is not by way of removing the obstruction/ ajnana to such
> > realization. Is this not contrary to the Bhashya? Does Bhamati deviate
> from
> > the Bhashya in this regard ? Please clarify.
> >
> >
> >  Regards
> >
> >
> >  Chandramouli
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Anand Hudli via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Shri Chandramouli wrote:
> > >
> > > >Nididhyasana is to be undertaken only by such a su-samskruta mind to
> > > >achieve the results.
> > >
> > > Nice summary of the topic. I would like to add a few points based on
> the
> > > differences between the two main schools of advaita - the BhAmati and
> the
> > > VivaraNa.
> > >
> > > It must be clarified that both schools recognize the importance of
> > Vedanta
> > > texts such as "tattvamasi" in the realization of Brahman. However, the
> > > Vivarana school holds that VedAnta vAkyas such as tattvamasi will give
> > rise
> > > to direct realization (aparokSha pramiti) of Brahman. Says the
> Vivarana:
> > > evaM cha taM aupaniShadamiti taddhitapratyayena brahmaavagatihetutvaM
> > > shabdasya darshitam upapannaM bhavati aparokShaavagatereva
> > > samyagavagatitvaaditi. By the VedAnta text,  aupaniShadaM puruShaM
> > > pRcchAmi, the taddhita affix applied to upanishad indicates that shabda
> > > (upanishad) is the cause of Brahman realization and that realization is
> > > direct (not indirect), since only direct realization can be true
> > > realization. Though both the mind and shabda are accepted by the two
> > > schools, the debate here is about which of the two - mind or shabda,
> > yields
> > > direct realization. The BhAmatI holds that shabda can only give us
> > indirect
> > > realization.
> > >
> > > tadeva vAkyamAtrasyArthe .api na drAgityeva pratyaya ityuktam.
> Therefore,
> > > it is said that one cannot immediately grasp the meaning of a text.
> > > According to vAcaspati, it is difficult to understand the meaning of
> the
> > > words and the sentence in the case of texts such as "tattvamasi". In
> > fact,
> > > it takes a long time to do so. (vilambena).
> > >
> > > And tatkiM iyameva vAkyajanitA pratItirAtmani tathA cha na
> > >  sAkShAtpratItirAtmani? ... vAkyArthapratItiH sAkShAtkArasya
> pUrvarUpam -
> > > bhAmatI . Why (stop) at the idea generated by the (vedAnta) text, which
> > is
> > > not a direct realization of the Self? This idea (generated by) the
> > meaning
> > > of the (vedAnta) text is a preliminary form of (or a precursor to)
> direct
> > > realization. So then how does one directly realize the Self? After
> > hearing
> > > and reflecting on the meaning of the text, meditating on it for a long
> > > time, without interruption, and with attention, one directly realizes
> > > Brahman.  vAkyArthashravaNamananottarakAlA visheShaNatrayavatI bhAvanA
> > > brahmasAkShAtkArAya kalpate iti.
> > >
> > > In contrast, the VivaraNa school holds that VedAnta texts such as
> > > "tattvamasi" can directly give rise to Brahman realization. An example
> > > cited here is that of "the tenth man." There were ten people who
> crossed
> > a
> > > river. They wanted to count themselves and ensure nobody was lost. The
> > > person who counted was making a mistake of not counting himself, coming
> > up
> > > short. An observer told him: "dashamastvamasi". You are the tenth man.
> > Just
> > > by hearing these words,  the tenth man realized that he was the missing
> > > person, the tenth one. In this case, the Apta-vAkya is alone sufficient
> > to
> > > cause the realization. And this realization is direct and immediate. So
> > if
> > > shabda (shravaNa) can give rise to direct Brahman realization, why do
> we
> > > need  manana and nididhyAsana?
> > >
> > > VivaraNa:
> > > yadA tu punaH shabdAdeva prathamam aparokSha-anubhavaphalaM vijnAnam
> > > utpannaM bhrantivikShepasaMskAra-khacita-antaHkaraNadoshAdartho.api
> > > parokSha-anubhava-phalatayA vibhrAntyA avatiShThate. tadA
> > > manana-nididhyAsane
> > >
> > >
> >
> cittagatavikShepAdi-doSha-pratibandha-nirAsena-aparokSha-phala-pratiShTha-hetutayA
> > > pramANasya phalopakAri-angamiti na virudhyate|
> > >
> > > While shabda (shravaNa) alone gives rise to knowledge which results in
> > the
> > > direct experience (of the Self), due to the defects that are the
> > > impressions of illusions in the mind, even this direct experience is
> > > apprehended as an indirect experience. In this case, manana and
> > > nididhyAsana will act as helping (auxiliary) factors of the shabda
> > pramANa
> > > or shravaNa to eliminate these defects which are obstacles (to direct
> > > experience) and thereby cause the direct experience to be established.
> > > There is no contradiction.
> > >
> > > A natural question to ask would be: Is Brahman realization possible by
> > > hearing the VedAnta text, such as tattvamasi, just once? Considering
> the
> > > BhAmatI's position, it would seem that VAcaspati is unwilling to accept
> > > that this is possible, since he holds that a long process of shravaNa,
> > > manana, and nididhyAsana is necessary. The VivaraNa, on the other hand,
> > > would have no problems in accepting this possibility, because Brahman
> > > realization does happen directly through the shabda pramANa, and if
> there
> > > are no obstacles due to  saMskAras in the mind, then such realization
> > takes
> > > place upon hearing the text just once. Shankara also agrees that such
> > > realization is possible: bhavet AvRtti AnarthakyaM taM prati yaH
> > tattvamasi
> > > iti sakRt uktameva brahmAtmatvaM anubhavituM shaknuyAt. (B.S.B. 4.1.2)
> > >
> > > But the BhAmatIkAra has noted the BhAShyakAra's comment and has offered
> > an
> > > explanation that reconciles his own view with that of the BhAShyakAra:
> > > sakRduktameviti| shrutvA matvA kShaNamavadhAya prAgbhavIya-abhyAsa
> > > jAtasaMskArAt ityarthaH. By "realization by hearing only once", the
> > > BhAShyakAra means that such realization happens by hearing and
> reflecting
> > > for an instant and from the impressions of repeated practice done in
> > > previous lives. So in the case of the person who realizes the Self by
> > > hearing the text only once, he must have practiced shravaNa, manana,
> and
> > > nididhyAsana in previous lives.
> > >
> > > Anand
> > > _______________________________________________
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