[Advaita-l] BhAgavatam : The objective world is illusory
sujal.u at gmail.com
Fri Mar 7 07:18:24 CST 2014
Pranams Sri Bhaskar Prabhu ji (BP)
*BP: The rose example is given to drive home the point that rose is
always rose (kArya in kAraNa rUpa) without any attributes, attributes have
been superimposed by the senses which grasped the 'rose'...( hope I dont
have to define what is ROSE in this context :-))*
As I understand, (I am no authority), in the e.g. of ROSE, the important
thing is SELF and not ROSE around which the story revolves and finally
terminates. ROSE is not important. Since we all are in duality, so attempts
are made to explain in dual tone.
The teachings is to learn to discriminate, separate milk from water by
being a witness (mind, consciousness is blended with this world via senses
via body). So the attention is directed towards SELF or in simple words,
mind is taught to turn inward i.e become introvert.
I admit that not all e.g.s are perfect and not all concepts can be
explained via a single e.g.
SAdhana is not different from Jnana. So 6 attributes when fully developed
merge in Jnana. Another name of Jnani is Brahma-niSTHa (niSThA- sraddhA).
total control over mind and senses is only possible for Jnani. The
VachyArtha of all 4 qualities / qualifications is Brahman / Atman only.
They are given so that one makes an attempt to become introvert. Since it
is by own ability that one thinks, discriminates and withdraws senses,
hence a certain level of purity and introvertness is required to actually
practice advaita. Doing dOSa darSana is the first step
*After the dawn of knowledge the jnAni would see everything as brahman!!
pUrvaM avidyayA asarva Aseet punaH vidyayA avidyApanaye
'sarvO' bhavati...It does not mean after jnAna, jnAni would become table,
computer, keyboard, etc. he would see everything in its sva-svarUpa
that is nothing but brahman.*
Not all come back from nirvikalp Samadhi. Sri Ramakrishna says that after
21 days link with body drops permanently and body falls apart like a dry
leaf detached from tree (sorry for bad translation, but the village like
language has more beauty which I fail to translate properly)
Also when the vision occurs of this world, then the world looks like
Brahman, because mind of Jnani is Brahman itself. But what exactly the
vision is only Jnani knows. Kanchi Paramacharya says that the world is Self.
The world here refers to the Self only, not the 3 dimensional world that we
see. Sri Ramana Maharshi says that both Jnani and ajnani has body. Body of
ajnani is his physical body (limited size and shape), while the body of
Jnani is the AdhAra or substratum of all bodies i.e. Brahman or Self
itself. So the body, world and Self are different names of same essence
and not that three things are three different things but made up of same
substance e.g. pot, cup, brick, etc all made up of one material brick, but
still they retain shape of their own. Here, we only see clay, clay and clay
as the knower of Brahman becomes Brahman itself. This is my understanding.
But for a Jivan mukta, one has to come down a step, keep connection with
body for the good of all. Such person lives on intuition and does not think
like we think. Hence all his thoughts, behaviour are divinely trigged and
he himself is a shakshi. Such a person has prarabhdha, but at the same time
God has given freedom to him to quit the body as an when he wants.
* I dont know what prompts you to bring my parama guruji's name here!!?? *
*Anyway, just for the records, yes, I am dAsara dAsa of my parama
I thought you are an ISKONite, as generally they reverentially use the
terminology 'Prabhu ji'. I remember that you are associated with SrI
SSS in his - the method of Vedanta gives good explanation of adhyAropa
apavAda. Hence the name, nothing more : ) You are a scholar and hence just
a hint was enough :)
The thing is for establishment of supreme truth, SrI Adi Shankara must have
negated duality in his bhASya-s.
But the thing to observe is that he does not interpret each and ever verse
of pArmArthika satya.
So my question is, mAyA as mithyA has to be realized. How? And until you
realize what what is your opinion about this world?
We all are in duality. Non-duality is an end, as nothing more is needed to
achieve, no more bhakti or Jnana or karma is needed. There is completeness,
peace and bliss and immortality. But in between this, what happens? I am
talking of the path, days of sAdhanA, when a seeker is trying to transcend
duality, yet lives in this world, doing karma and exhausting prArabhda.
So is this world real even during sAdhanA days or can we progress in
spirituality by keeping in mind that this world is illusion, yet sincerely
do our job, business, attend family and yet stay detach and progress
towards ultimate truth?
What I personally do is
1. Do dOSa darSana to make one introvert
2. Do not give imp to anything, but do the work sincerely. (this is
3. mithyA means to neglect the world and objects and not reject. It is
an art to stay neutral. Neither select or reject. Selection / choice is a
problem. Free will is a problem.
4. Meditate, meditate, meditate
5. Read shastras repeatedly to gain clarity. Ofcourse guru is extremely
6. Try to gain 6 quality and be ready (prepared) to renounce the world
7. Mentally renounce the world and objects, but yet do the work
But how to be detached? simply be aware of OM and the attachment / thoughts
fades away. People take up another activity when they do not wish to think
any more of subject or say on their illness. i.e. they occupy their mind
with something else so the pain is not felt. Here one meditates of OM or
The less you give importance to this world, stop discussing about it, stop
thinking about it and engross yourself with spiritual thoughts, the
influence of this world will fade away slowly.
See you know from guru and shastras that this world is not true and not
eternal and Brahman is the only thing that is Real (as in BG 2.16). So that
is your destination. Hence Rest NOT till this destination is reached. If
you give importance to names and forms, relations, you will never come out
of it. If you give importance to social and family relations, you will stay
attached to them. Sooner or later one has to come out.
I may not be 100 % detached, but surely attempts are made. It is work in
So I try to detach, stay introvert, but mind is not used to being alone and
hence at times it rushes out. During this time, which is like emotional
outlet, I forget all tatva Jnan from shastras, as mind is so strongly
extrovert that it is difficult to control. After the force of mind reduces,
I again try to focus on Self, meditate and become introvert. This game
continuous till my mind quiets down and becomes still. It no more hankers
for external objects. It has become pure. Now demands have decreased, there
is no expectation, desires are fading away day-by-day. Thinking of this
world as illusion helps me to quickly become introvert and neutralize any
type of attraction, attachment, etc.
A ball when dropped from a height does not calm down ad become motionless
immediately. It bounces back, but each time the height of bounce decreases,
until ball stops bouncing. This is the path - bouncing of ball and the
destination is to be calm, motionless.
So mAyA as mithyA (illusion) can be applied, but mind has to be strong.
However, if the mind is extrovert, then think this world is real, but
Brahman and this world becomes beautiful, meaningful and gives one the
reason to exist. One can progress this way, but I feel, later on, one has
to transcend duality.
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> Hare Krishna
> When one says - this is rose, that means one is different from ROSE, as
> is the knower of rose.
> > The rose example is given to drive home the point that rose is always
> rose (kArya in kAraNa rUpa) without any attributes, attributes have been
> superimposed by the senses which grasped the 'rose'...( hope I dont have
> to define what is ROSE in this context :-))
> Creation, etc is w.r.t to relative reality and Brahman is untouched by it.
> > true nobody arguing this point. When it comes to the context of
> creation, the brahman is the ONLY efficient as well as material cause. We
> know pAramArthikally there is no creation, nor any baddha jeeva, nor any
> mOksha (reference vide kArika)
> These theories are only for explanatory purpose.
> > Yes, it is an 'upAya' says gaudapAdAchArya in kArika.
> Brahman is inexplainable, beyond the realm of senses and mind.
> > agreed prabhuji.
> Hence any attempt to define Brahman
> cannot give real definition of Brahman.
> > yes, agreed :-))
> What about those shruti-s?? Do shruti-s contradict themselves?
> they are there just to clear doubts. Later when one is absorbed in
> the root of all, the source of all, desires of even past life are up
> very fast. then one sees that everything is mental projection.
> > After the dawn of knowledge the jnAni would see everything as brahman!!
> pUrvaM avidyayA asarva Aseet punaH vidyayA avidyApanaye 'sarvO'
> bhavati...It does not mean after jnAna, jnAni would become table,
> computer, keyboard, etc. he would see everything in its sva-svarUpa that
> is nothing but brahman.
> Actually, the meaning of anything, any shape and form is given by mind and
> intellect. Snake and it's skin. Is casting off skin the death of snake?
> > yes, this is what is called jeeva's avidyA kalpita jagat. which is
> I think Bhaskar Prabhu ji is a FAN of SSS :D
> > I dont know what prompts you to bring my parama guruji's name here!!??
> Anyway, just for the records, yes, I am dAsara dAsa of my parama guruji
> Sri SSS.
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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