[Advaita-l] Which one is first in the creation sequence
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Wed Feb 26 00:07:53 CST 2014
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> Creation in Drishti Srishti Vada is simultaneous. Because when That One saw
> at that same time simultaneously ALL Creation happened. The Four Varnas and
> Rishis, animals, all the worlds and the whole creation happened immediately
> and simultaneously.
We get the above idea in the bhAShya for BG 10.6:
येषां मनूनां महर्षीणां च सृष्टिः लोके इमाः स्थावरजङ्गमलक्षणाः प्रजाः।
The above concise statement of Shankara is found elaborated in the
madhusUdani commentary for the above verse:
अतो विशुद्धजन्मत्वेन सर्वप्राणिश्रेष्ठा मत्त एव हिरण्यगर्भात्मनो जाताः
सर्गाद्यकाले प्रादुर्भूताः। येषां महर्षीणां सप्तानां भृग्वादीनां चतुर्णां च
सनकादीनां मनूनां च चतुर्दशानां अस्मिन्ल्लोके जन्मना च विद्यया च सन्ततिभूता
इमा ब्राह्मणाद्याः सर्वाः प्रजाः ।।10.6।।
This means, as Sri Jaldhar concludes, the entire jiva-mass constituting
the people of the four varNa-s happen to be the descendents both by birth
and by knowledge-receiving, of the seven mahaRShi-s, the four sanaka-s
(sanaka, sanandana, sanatkumara and sanatsujAta), and the fourteen manu-s.
So, the original question about who came first - the varNa-s or the RShi-s
is answered above: There is and has to be a simultaneity. We get a clue
to this in the bhAShya for BG 3.10: along with the yajna-s the prajApati
created the three varNa-s at the beginning = sargAdau = at the beginning of
We also get this idea in the introduction to the BGB by Shankara, in the
very opening sentences:
That Lord, having created this world, with a view to initiate the
maintenance thereof, created the marIchi, etc. prajApati-s in the beginning
and endowed them with the pravRtti dharma enshrined in the Veda. Further,
the Lord created the sanaka, sanandana, etc. and endowed them with the
nivRttidharma characterized by jnAna-vairAgyam. This two-fold dharma is to
be adhered to by the varNa-s consisting of brAhmaNa, etc. for their
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:03 AM, ramesh badisa <badisa66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Namaskaram.
> > At the beginning of email, I would like to seek your forgiveness for
> > raising a silly question. I could not figure out the answer for myself.
> > I am requesting all members to help me.
> > My confusion was related to two Bhagawad Gita slokas -
> > 4/13 (chatur varnyam ...) &
> > 10/6 (Maharsayah Sapta ..).
> > The first sloka talks about four varnas. So, it is obvious that it is
> > concerned to the creation;
> > The second sloka talks about creation of seven great sages by the Lord.
> > This is also concerned to the creation.
> > My confusion was that which one stands first in the creation.
> > If you say, "it doesn't matter", then, sorry the matter ends there.
> > However, if you would like to help me, please read further.
> > Is it 4/13 first or 10/6 first
> > When there is no creation, then, there are no varnas.
> > Similarly, when seven great sages were born, there are no four varnas but
> > only one varna - the first varna.
> > For me, it appears that the classification of varnas by Lord came much
> > later after the creation. Please correct me if I am wrong.
> > Namaskaram,
> > ramesh
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