[Advaita-l] Who Slept Very Well? - Part IV
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Fri Feb 7 04:20:26 CST 2014
praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji
Absolutely fantastic write up prabhuji. I enjoyed every bit of it and
appreciate the clarity in your articulation. It is really a rare quality
to put across one's thoughts in such a clear manner. Sri Chitta prabhuji,
Sri Subbu prabhuji, your goodself are entirely in a different league, as
Sri ram prabhuji said, you are certainly a guiding force to the advaita
sAdhaka-s. IMO, your series can be saved in a separate folder and keep it
in file section so that those who want to understand 'sushupti' / deep
sleep state / prAjna from advaita perspective can study it. Kindly accept
my humble prostrations for this meritorious work prabhuji.
If you could permit me, I'd like to share some of my thoughts with regard
to this state.
Analysis of our deep sleep experience should provide us many aspects for a
keen Vedantic student.
1. It is an advaitic experience without knowledge of the absolute truth
– indicating that self-realization does not involve an experience of
non-duality by shunning or shutting of the mind, since we are experiencing
this all the time when we go to deep sleep state. No one gets up from
deep-sleep with advaitic knowledge or with self-realization.
> You are absolutely right prabhuji. Though there is absolute ekatva in
sushupti, we donot realize that since there is agrahaNAtmaka avidyA in
this state from jeeva perspective who is analyzing this state from waking.
jnAna is required to realize this 'ekatva' in sushupti. And that jnAna
cannot come in sushupti since there is an absence of upAdhi.
2. Self-realization therefore involves clear understanding of my
advaitic nature irrespective of the presence or absence of duality.
> Again I agree with this. It is clear realization or understanding it
as a fact not as a thought as per your famous statement :-))
That understanding comes only with the mind which is ready to learn via
shravana, manana and nidhidhyaasana that scriptures prescribe. That is
listening to the scriptures under a competent teacher who himself has
learned this from his teacher, and reflecting on the teaching until there
are no more doubts and contemplating on the teaching until one recognizes
all the time I am that pure existent consciousness, one without a second.
> agreed prabhuji..beautifully said.
3. In the deep sleep state, jnaani sleeps as jnaani and ajnaani sleeps
> Yes, I see myself as same ajnAni only everday after 'sushupti' :-))
This is because the mind that has the knowledge or ignorance of one’s true
nature is folded with its knowledge to be in potential form. Hence jnaanam
or ajnaanam of oneself is in potential form in the anandamaya kosha.
> if the jnAni's paramArtha jnAna is just another 'data' in his mind,
what happens to his jnAna when the jnAni suffers from alzheimer's disease
or brain-dead coma?? I hope you are not saying here 'yard stick' to
ascertain the jnAna of the jnAni is 'data' in his brain compartment and
how actively he uses it. I think Sri Dennis Waite prabhuji had asked this
question some years back.
It appears from the discussion deep-sleep is being described somewhat
similar to turIyam while in fact in the description of turIyam the
scripture negates the deep-sleep state as part of mithyaa only.
> I would have appreciated if you would have given those scriptural
references. Anyway, one shruti says Atma has three avasthA-s and all the
three avasthA-s are mere svapna..( tasya traya avasathA trayee svapnAH.
But when the sushupti is seen from the sushupti avastha itself
(anubhavAtmaka drushti) without bringing the waking mind's analysis,
'sushupti' viveka itself is enough to know our real svarUpa says clearly
The confusion can be due to the misunderstanding that pure consciousness
involves objectless awareness as the description indicates. Even if one
takes that operational definition, the deep sleep state is not objectless
> again I beg to differ from this. The statement the deep sleep state is
NOT objectless awareness' does not find any place in shankara
bhagavatpAda's bhAshya...there is a bhAshya vakya that says that nAma &
rUpa will be in avyAkruta rUpa in sushupti which will become vyAkruta in
jAgrat and svapna. Sushupti is the state where there is no objects hence
there is no adhyAsa there. Here Atman is sarvOpAdhi vinirmukta hence he
will be in his sva-svarUpa.
In deep sleep state we are aware of the homogeneous ignorance just as
stated above with example of pitch dark room where we are aware of
objectless-ness. In both pitch dark room and in deep sleep state we have
an object for awareness; darkness in the pitch dark room and ignorance in
the deep-sleep state.
> again here also if we see this avasthA from that avasthA itself, shruti
says he (prAjna) is sarvajna and sarva shakta..and he will be in his
nirupAdhika svarUpa. In sushupti jeeva attains ekatva with brahma hence he
does not have vishesha jnAna of nAma rUpa clarifies shankara. tasya
AtmaivaH anyatvapratyupasthApaka hetOH avidyAyAH abhAvAt, here also
shankara clarifies there is an absence of 'anyatva hetu avidyA' in
For that reason only we can say – I do not see or know anything there in
the pitch dark room or in the deep-sleep state.
> No reason here is not ignorance but 'ekatva'. The hetu for not seeing
the 'vishesha' is 'ekatva' clearly says shankara in bhAshya. And as you
yourself said in one of your series, here Atma in sushupti, ashareeri,
hence there is no taint of avidyA..ashareeraM vAva saMtaM na priyApriye
Absence of non-existence of an object or objects is knowledge stated as
anupalabdi pramANa. As a final
note again – self-realization does not necessarily involves objectless
awareness but recognition that I am awareness with or without thoughts or
vRittis or object-thoughts. Hence, advaitic knowledge involves recognition
that I am pure existence-consciousness-limitless with or without the world
of plurality present since the plurality that is present is only mithyaa
and therefore cannot disturb my advaitic state.
> plurality presented here as separate 'plurality' is mithya, but when
this plurality seen from its adhishtAna ( like seeing ONLY upAdAna gold in
bangle, ring, bracelet etc. in nAma rUpa is satya only not mithya...karya
jagat is nothing but vishesha darshana of that kAraNa and kArya cannot
have its own existence apart from that adhishtAna kAraNa.
> Once again, this is my understanding..you are welcome to disagree with
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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