[Advaita-l] Padmapurana verse on Mayavada
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Mon Sep 9 13:56:58 CDT 2013
> > sa eva *bhakti-yogākhya*
> > ātyantika udāhṛtaḥ
> > *yenātivrajya tri-guṇaṁ*
> > *mad-bhāvāyopapadyate*
> What is that 'bhAva'? If it is saguNa, then the Lakshmipatitvam of Vishnu
> is inescapable. The devotees attaining to vishnubhAva will be lakshmipatis
> by default. No one can prevent this because Vishnu Himself cannot prevent
> being Lakshmipati since the Shv.up. defines Ishwara as 'mAyAm tu prakRtim
> viddhi, mAyinam tu maheshwaram.' The very prospect of being maheshwara is
> impossible without the dependence on the Lakshmi-principle.
RV: What is patitvam according to you? Para Vasudeva from who Sankarashana,
Pradyumna, Vasudeva and Aniruddha forms expands is formless.
> If on the other hand, vishnubhAva is nirgunam, then the bhakta attaining it
> is impossible, for the bhakta, with the advaitic knowledge will realize
> that he is already vishnu, vyApanashIla, as Shankara explains in the
> kathopanishad bhashyam. In that case there is no choice for the bhakta to
> 'not even desire moksha' and prefer to be a bhakta.
RV: Impossibility of attaining is true of one in jnana marga also. If there
is bhakti in mukti, there is no jnana in mukti also. Both are merely
modifications of the mind. If the reflections of Brahman on mind are
accepted as real, then bhakti is there in mukti, jnana is there in mukti.
> Such supposed
> bhakti-rasa statements as 'though he does not even desire liberation...'
> are completely devoid of any substance and only look immature. They can at
> best be arthavada statements directed at enthusing aspirants to have
> devotion to bhagavan. The Vedanta is moksha shAstra. No one comes to it
> for a purpose other than that.
RV: Between you and Shri Sunil, please agree whether you have moksha as the
goal or not. I agree with you that for those pursuing jnana yoga, moksha
is the goal but Sunil disagrees. If you say moksha is your goal, I have to
point out that it is a position of ignorance because no one is really
> The only way to escape both these possibilities is to admit the moksha of
> the dvaita and vishishtadvaita systems where the mukta will remain
> different from the Lord in the designated loka.
RV: A pure bhakta rejects such moksha according to SBh verse quoted. You
have to base your position on pramanas.
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