[Advaita-l] Paroksha to Aparoksha
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Thu Jun 20 04:49:51 CDT 2013
praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
I am unable to understand that vAkya: sarvOpyanyO vyavahAraH Atmana eva
vidushaH. Where does this sentence occur?
> I dont exactly remember, perhaps you would be the best person to pick
an appropriate vAkya like this from shankara's prasthAna traya bhAshya
since you are having the reference library of all works on advaita vedAnta
on your desk at home :-)) I read it in some upanishad shankara bhAshya
only, most probably on taitireeya where the maNtra occurs yadidaM
kiMcha...but anyway not sure...In the meanwhile I too search the above
bhAshya vAkya reference..But anyway, you can be rest assured the above
statement is shankara bhAshya vAkya only and it is not my composition to
find out the grammatical errors in it :-))
As it is, my objection to it is: 'AtmanA' is in the tRtIyA, instrumental.
Atman cannot be an instrument
as It is niShkriya and akhaNDa.
> but according to you what has become all this is not nishkriya &
akhanda brahma, it is saguNa brahma is it not:-)) Anyway, this is not my
How can the Jnani 'use' the Atman for his vyavahAra?
> vyavahAra can happen through kArya kAraNa tAdAtmya saMbhandhaH,
brahmavAdinaH kathaM iti chet?? na, tasya tAdAtmyalakshNa
saMbandOpapateH...And this tadAymya saMbandha not only restricted to only
nAma & rUpa, for the nAmarUpa vyavahAra too it is equally applicable,
because kArya what we call is nothing but kAraNa's vishesha darshana (vide
sUtra bhAshya). sadAtmanA satyatvAbhyupagamAt.....sarvavyavahArANAM
sarvavikArANAM cha satyatvaM...
If it is said: 'the jnani knows that all vyavahAra 'happens' in the
substratum that is Atman', then it is agreeable.
> that is your interpretation of the most of the unambiguous bhAshya
vAkya to bring in saguNa brahman...As per shankara vedAnta, brahman (
absolute) is abhinnanimittOpAdana kAraNa for this jagat..He is adhishtAna
(antaryAmi) as well as 'sarvaM'. Hence shruti says satyanchAnrutancha
satyamabhavat..sa cha bAhyalOkO nAstyasmAkaM AtmavyatiriktaH, 'sarvaM' hi
asmAkaM AtmabhUtameva sarvasya cha vayaM Atma bhUtaH says bruhat
shruti...Let this be aside, how can you say vyavahAra happens in the
substratum i.e. Atman when you yourself said that Atman is nishkriya &
On the contrary, it is only based on the sAkshi bhAva can there be any
understanding about the jnAni's attitude.
> jnAni's attitude is based on sarvAtma bhAva...samOhaM sarva bhUteshu,
brAhmaNe gavi hastini, shunishchaiva shvapakecha paNditAH samadarshinaH,
confirms lord in geeta.
Shankara brings this out in the
last sentence of the BGB 2.16: 'You too, Arjuna, by following the
Tattvadarshi-s, view the transformations (like sukha/duHkha, sheeta,
mAna, apamAna, etc.) as mere appearances like mirage water and maintain
titikShA.' This attitude is impossible without the sAkshi bhAva.
anudvignamanAH sukheShu vigataspRhaH' ['in the wake of joy and sorrow, the
sthitaprajna is not subjected to elation or dejection'] is impossible
unless one remains in the sAkshi bhAva. Even the 'indriyAni
vartante, naiva kinchit karomi'['I do nothing; it is only the interaction
between the sense/motor organs and their respective objects'] is the
perfect articulation of the sAkshi bhAva alone.
> Yes, it is better for the sAdhaka-s to practice the sAkshi bhAva later
to realize that sarvAtma bhAva, that he is that adviteeya..and which is
also sarvabhUteshu gUdaH, sAkshi bhUta & kevalO nirguNa..vide
That Atman is akartR, abhoktR is the conviction of the jnAni. But the
jnAni is not just the Atman;
> he is just the Atman and nothing else..brahmaiva bhavati..after this
realization he looks like shAreeri..dehavAniva lakshyate clarifies
as long as a person called a jnani is alive, there is this distinction
that is inevitable.
> That we, the ajnAni-s, are calling, jarA maraNa is not for the jnAni
because he has already attained that state which is beyond that birth and
'brahmavit is brahmaiva' but
the brahmavit is also a person who continues to live in the prakrtic
body/mind complex for a destined period.
> Yes, we are still seeing jnAni's BMI, because we, the ajnAni-s cannot
think beyond BMI of the jnAni.
Till such fall of the body/mind all the happenings are only sAkShi bhAsya
for the person called jnani.
> please see above..and also yattu sarvAtmabhAvAt arvAk vAlAgramAtramapi
anyatvena drushyate nAhamasmeeti tadavasthA avidyA...The sAkshi jnAna or
sAkshmi bhAva what you are articulating here suffers from bedha drushti
i.e. I am sAkshi, and I am seeing the world and its suffering as
witness..this is avidyA because shankara says even tip of hair of anyatva
bhAva is avidyA...But when it comes to avasthAtraya prakriya where tureeya
is sAkshi to three avasthA it is something different..More on this later
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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