[Advaita-l] Meet on Advaita Vedanta
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Wed Jun 5 05:55:20 CDT 2013
praNAms Sri Subhanu prabhuji
Bhaskar: knowledge can occur to the yOgya adhikAri not only from shruti
but also from any texts
Response: Shankara and Suresvara pretty emphatic on this I am afraid with
regards their tradition., where srutivakyAdeva kaivalyam. Pls see BUBV
1.4.857-867 and NS where the results of viveka and anumana yield only
> I request Sri Subbu prabhuji to clarify his stand here ( I might have
misread his stance earlier)..he said in one of his posts, shAstrAdhyayana
(shravaNAdi sAdhana) is not mandatory for the 'yOgya' or atyuttama
adhikAri of brahma vidyA as he can realize that 'ultimate' by reading some
lines about 'ekatva' in a novel!! For that matter Sri ramaNa has not
studied any shAstra before his self introspection about 'death' and
realization of the secret of death at his uncle's house.
Bhaskar :jnAna prApti through svAnubhava...Hence, there are statements
paramArtha jnAni has to do sAdhana to maintain his jnAna (vijnAya prajnAm
Response: key principle: Suresvara is uncompromising in stating that only
that jnana which destroys ignorance at that moment once and for all is
worthy of the name jnana: sakrid jatam na ched hanti jnanam eva na tad
> But fact remains among traditionalists ( I am sorry for using this word
very often, as I donot know any other better way to address the opposing
view points of some scholars, no offence / sarcasm meant in anyway) that
though he is paramArtha jnAni, his upAdhi-s would continue to function in
a normal way ( for this reference is br.up. bhAshya 1.4.7 :
shareerArambhakasya karmaNO niyataphalatvAt 'samyakjnAnaprAptAvapi
avashyambhAvinee pravruttirvAjmanaH kAyAnAM, labdhavrutteH karmaNO
baleeyasvAt mukteshvAdipravruttivat ) and because of this normal function
of these upAdhi-s, the paramArtha jnAni-s too would sometime have
kAma-krOdha, 'digbhrAnta' 'dvichandra darshana' like vipareeta pratyaya
etc. So, what they have to do is, to remember this jnAna & keep its
intensity intact they have to do the practices like dhyAna, samAdhi in the
form of nidhidhyAsana till he sheds his mortal coil. Hence videha mukti is
the real mukti in its real sense.
I have given in much earlier posts Suresvara's clarification of BUB 1.4.7
on vijnaya prajnam kurvita and the true context of comments re "steadying
knowledge" which puts his views on jnana and jnana-nishtha in context. Pls
see BUBV 1.4.921-940. You are probably also aware that Ramana Maharshi
himself has stated in at least 3 of his talks found in the book of his
dialogues that what we ascribe to a jnani's prarabdha from an empirical
point of view is from the standpoint of an ignorant bystander.
> I am sorry to say that, Sri ramaNa maharshi's clarification with regard
to jnAni's vyavahAra has not been accepted as valid since Sri ramaNa here
talks which does not fall in line of 'traditional' teaching of advaita
Bhaskar: yOga of patanjaLi (ashtAnga yOga) has a significant role to
play in advaita sAkshAtkAra ( asamprajnAta samAdhi in patanjali yOga
sUtra terminology) is the
practical experience to realize that ekatva of advaita parabrahman.
Response: We all know the references in BSB II.15 and BUB that discuss the
value of yoga. However as stated above ultimate knowledge in Shankara's
tradition is from Sruti alone. Please see BUBV 1.4.848-852 where the
necessity of the injunction for chitta-vritti-nirodha is refuted. I will
the make the obvious point to all that samadhi states can confirm the deep
sleep experience but as long as the seeker keeps viewing themselves as
coming in and out of such a state they are still within the clutches of
> I agree with this but as far as my knowledge goes, some renowned
Acharaya-s of advaita tradition clarified that yOga samAdhi or nirvikalpa
samAdhi is what is needed to have the 'practical' experience of that
'ekatva', the very potential source material for this stand is I believe
'viveka chudAmaNi'. Ofcourse, vara, vareeya, varishTa gradation among the
jnAni-s based on the method they use to come back from this samAdhi state.
Bhaskar: why should we restrict our studies to the works of ONLY
vartikAkArA and his works?
Response: I carefully phrased my sentence to not mean this so I suggest
you read it again. I have also studied Vivaranam, Bhamati, Ista Siddhi,
Citsukha, Ratnaprabha and more. However to study SHANKARA's tradition an
earnest student should kind of ground themselves in a study of the
original Bhashyas no?
> Yes, study of orginal bhAshya-s is indispensable to understand shankara
saMpradAya, but (a big BUT) to understand the subtleties of shankara
bhAshya and to know and determine the 'correct' interpretation of shankara
siddhAnta we need to have the vyAkhyAnakAra-s works and because of this
reason only even today in traditional advaita institution while doing
bhAshya shAnti parallelly vyAkhyAna grantha-s like Ratnaprabha etc. have
been taught!! Sri Subbu prabhuji, in one of his recent mails said that
scholars like Sri Mani Dravida shAstri said that without vyAkhyAna support
it is impossible to understand shankara's stand on some of the
adhikaraNa-s in vedAnta sUtra-s!! So, according to traditionalists to
solve the complexity of original bhAshya-s, vyAkhyAnakAras' works would
act as a digestive texts.
It would be like reading a film review and judging the film based on that
without seeing the original film. My comment about Suresvara has never
been an ONLY but has always been an AND.
> But the argument is even sureshwara, the vArtikakAra has not gone
against to shankara & more importantly vyAkhyAna-s..Do you agree with this
prabhuji and say we have to study both vyAkhyAna AND vArtika to understand
shankara's original bhAshya correctly !!??
It is a pity in my view that we have from his writings over 13000 verses
of pure gems on advaita, yet beyond Naishkarmya Siddhi he is hardly read
> yes, you are right prabhuji, I hardly see the quotes from vArtika in
these discussion..Do you think vArtika studies would make such a
significant change in understanding shankara's advaita ?? If yes, in what
way vArtika is better source of material to understand shankara siddhAnta
and how the vyAkhyAna-s are lacking this clarity when compared to
As we say in German das ist echt Schade.
> I dont know what it means :-))
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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