[Advaita-l] Eka jiva vada and nanajiva vada.
vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 5 21:59:58 CDT 2013
Response to Madhva's refutation of One Soul Theory.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> Kindly see the website claim - Refutation of Eka jiva vada
> Eka jiva vada (a theory of one jiva) is a prominent advaita theory. It
> was propounded by Adi Shankara and developed by Vimuktatman in his
> Istasiddhi where he says:
> brahmaiva avidyayA ekam ced
> badhyate mucyate dhiyA
> eka muktau jagan mukteh
> na mukta anya vyavasthitiH
> "Brahman alone gets entangled in one avidya and is liberated through
> knowledge. When a single person gets liberated, the world itself is
> liberated. There is no other explanation of mukti and baddha."
> Madhva's refutation in Vishnu tattva vinirnaya:
> According to him this entire universe is a figment imagined by one
> embodied soul. This is unreasonable.
> For the enlightenment of that one embodied soul, it should be decided
> whether he is a preceptor or a pupil and then establish the required
> pupil-preceptor relation. If X is that soul who is conscious of the
> fact that everything is his imaginary creation, then he, as a
> preceptor, will not engage himself in giving instructions to others
> treating them as his pupils. Because all others except himself are
> understood as unreal and no purpose will be served by giving them any
> instructions. Obviously, nobody worries about his duties towards
> persons seen in a dream, e.g. if one obtains a son in one’s dream one
> never tries for his upbringing and education.
That One embodied soul is a pupil. He imagines the whole Universe as his
dream. He has created all the 7 billion people in the world in his dream,
He has created God, Guru and Vedanta also in his dream. He has to go to the
dream Guru and ask him for instructions. The dream Guru will instruct him
with Vedanta. This Vedanta instruction is also happening in his dream. But
with Vedanta Knowledge the Pupil will wake up from his dream. It is like a
tiger in a dream causing waking you up sweating and like a dream lady to
cause wet dream. The false thing can have real effect.
If the embodied soul becomes Guru also there is no problem. He will teach
others in his dream like how he eats food and other activities. In the
dream he is eating food sometimes and doing so many activities. Teaching
others is one more activity.
> Moreover, suppose somehow that one soul is discovered. While he cannot
> function as a preceptor to establish the required pupil-preceptor
> relation, he also cannot function as a pupil, because that would make
> him receive instruction from a preceptor who is none but the product
> of his own imagination and thus unfit to serve any useful purpose like
> imparting true knowledge.
Wrong. Many people have got instructed in dreams. Some people dream God
comes in dream and gives instruction. Even though Guru is dream person he
has capacity to instruct the Pupil. The Madhva says God is creator of even
dream things. Why he is objecting to dream Guru? People can learn in dreams.
Scientifically also dream learning is proved. Kindly see -
> What is the purpose of learning? It should elevate the pupil on the
> path of liberation. When we consider the pupil to be that one soul,
> what does happen when he gets learning? He becomes a preceptor. Is it
> an elevation or a fall? As it is believed that the preceptor is the
> illusory product imagined by the pupil, learned pupil when occupies
> the position of the preceptor will himself become reduced from reality
> to unreality. Thus the learning, instead of elevating him, will
> degrade him. None will dare to undertake such a downgrading learning!
> Wrong. This is a meaningless objection.
Only others in the dream are unreal. But the dreamer is never unreal.
Nobody can have a doubt like 'Am I real or unreal?' even though he is
dreaming. I will say always I am always real even in my dream. I am always
Brahma. When I am Pupil I am real. When I am Guru also I am real only.
Only I am real. You and all other people in the world are my dream
creations. You are not real.
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