[Advaita-l] Fw: [USBrahmins] Re: FW: "brahma satyam jagan mithya"-AN ADVICE TO READ BEFORE WRITING ON ADVAITA.
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 1 14:58:07 CDT 2012
This for your kind perusal and comments.
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
To: "usbrahmins at yahoogroups.com" <usbrahmins at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 12:33 PM
Subject: Fw: [USBrahmins] Re: FW: "brahma satyam jagan mithya"-AN ADVICE TO READ BEFORE WRITING ON ADVAITA.
Many people find it difficult to understand Advaita and there could be genuine reason also, at times. Why go straight to Adhyaropa and say that everything is Adhyaropa. Then there is no need for any discusions at all. Everything is Adhyaropa only at the level of the Nirguna Brahman. Lord Krishna talked from that level in the Bhagavad Gita. The second time when Arjuna requested Lord Krishna to repeat what He (the Lord) told in the Bhagavad Gita, the Lord refused to comply and made it clear that at
time of giving the discourse of the Bhagavad Gita He was Yoga-yukta. The Advaitins probably should begin with teaching of Advaita at the Saguna level. Lord Krishna was Saguna Brahman with Sattva guna and he advised Arjuna to become Nistraigunya and that was to cultivate the Sattva guna. The
Lord also says that contemplating of the Nirguna is not easy. Striving for unity with the Saguna Brahman cannot be called non-Advaita. The Lord had said that he made the world with a fraction of his with his Maya. The Saguna Brahman can see through Maya, while those who have not achieved unity with him and considers themselves as different from the Lord cannot see through Maya. The Jivanmukta awaiting the Videhamukta stage can of course have that insight.
From: Shivprasad <shiv_dinkar at yahoo.com>
To: USBrahmins at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:48 AM
Subject: [USBrahmins] Re: FW: "brahma satyam jagan mithya"-AN ADVICE TO READ BEFORE WRITING ON ADVAITA.
Dear Sri Shivashankara Rao
Thanks for kindly and patiently replying to my post but, did it answer the questions that were originlly initiated? I don't think so.
(YOU DO NOT APPEAR TO HAVE READ THE REPLY FULLY OR YOU HAVE NOT TRIED TO UNDERSTAND IT- IT COULD ALSO BE BECAUSE OF THE OVER ENTHUSIASM OF A NEW CONVERT.-MODERATOR)
Since I was born in an Adwatic family and, was exposed to ONLY Adwaita until I went to Engineering college, I am aware that in Adwaitham, there are three kinds of Tatwam - namely, Paramarthaika Tatwam, Vyavaharika Tatwam and Pratibhashika Tatwam.
When an object is not becoming the object of Bhaada Gyanam, then it is Paramarthika Sathyam and, the exampe for this is Brahman.
By Brahma Gyanam alone, when one is subjected to Bhaada Gyanam, then it is called Vyavaharka and, the example of this is Jagat.
Other than by Brahma Gyanam, if Bheda Gyanam comes, it is, then Pathibhashika and, the example for this case is Sukti Rajata.
As Mahan Sri Jaya Tirtha Swamy says - 'Aprithiya Pratishedhaha Na Yujyathe' - that is, Nothing can be denied without knowing it. So, when Adwaitha calls the Jagat as 'Sadsat Viakshana' - that is different from Sath as well as as it is different from Asath also. And, in order to prove their point, the Adwatins state the inference as - Vimathwam, Mithya, Drushatwath, Shukti Rajatwat. Jagat is Mithya because it is seen, like the conch-silver. Then what is meant by Mithya, they say -'Mithyatwam Naama Anirvachaneeyam' and 'Anirvachaneeyam Naama Sadsat Vilakshanatwam'. Then the Adwaitins say Mithyatwam means Anirvachaneyam which means that it cannot be expressed. Further, Anirvachaneeyatwa means Sadsat Vilakshanatwam which means that it is different from Sat as well as Asat. In order to substantiate, Adwaitins take the example of conch-silver (or rope and snake). There they show Drushatwa Hetu as well as Sadsat Viakshnatwa. Sadya also is present there.
In respect of Hetu being present in the example, there is no difficulty because one sees Shukti Rajatam, feels as Idham Rajatam and this Brahamai or illusion. In respect to Sadhya being present in the Drushtantha, Adwaitins take two postulates on Nyaya School - namely, Sat Chet Na Badayeth - which means if it is Sat, then later on, it should not be subjected to a different and opposite knowledge. The other being Asat Chet Na Prateeyeth - which means if it is Asat then it should not be seen. Now taking Shukti Rajath, one can find that it is Sat Vilakshana - different from Sat, because later, on examination, one gets the knowledge as Nedham Rajatham. So, Sat Chet Na Badayet is not satisfied and so it is different from Sat and so Sat Vilakshanatwam has come. Then because this silver, Rajata is seen and Asat Chet Na Prateyet is not satisfied and, it should be different from Asat so it is Asat Vilakshana. Hence Shukti Rajat is both Sat Vilakshana and
Asat Vilakshana and, therefore Sadsat Vilakshanatwam is arrived to Shukti Rajat. Hence Adwaitins conclude, there is Drushtwa, Hetu is the Jagat and Satsath Vilakshanatwa, Sadhya should also be there following the example of Shukti Rajat.
That is why, Mahan Sri Madwacharya says - "Na Cha Paramarthaha Bhedabhavaha, Vyavaharikaha Saha Asthithi Vachyam | Sadsadaivalakshane Pramanaabhavath" || That is, there is no Bheda, that is real difference, but it is accepted only as Vyavaharik, that is, empirical, is not correct. Because the concept of Vyavaharik - that is Sadsat Vilakshana that which is real nor unreal is not tenable. So he says - "Na Cha Vaileshanam Tat Pratitim Vina Gyayathe" || That is, he who claims that Asat is not comprehended, cannot deny it unless he has comprehended it and he cannot also deny it if he has comprehended it (in either case he has to accept the comprehension of Asat).
That is why Mahan Sri Jaya Tirtha Swamy* says - "Apreethitasya Pratishedhaha Na Yuchathe" | Nothing can be denied without knowing it, so when Asat is known, then only it can be denied. So when Asat is known, means, Asat Chet Na Pratiyet falls flat. When Asat Chet Na Pratiyet falls falt, then Sadsat Vilakshanatwa falls flat. So, Anirvachaneeyam falls flat. So, then Mityatwa falls flat.
I do respect the views of the scientists and also the Madhwa scholar that you had quoted. But that is their own opinion and, I am not so sure all of us have to subscribe to it, is it not? We can read, think for ourselves and independently make up our minds, is it not, what our Acharyas are saying?
Om Sri Krishnarpanamastu
* PS - regret sometimes that I was born not during the times of Mahan Sri Jaya Tirtha Swamy so that I could have learnt first hand from him all these concepts.
--- In USBrahmins at yahoogroups.com, shivashankara rao <shivashankararao at ...> wrote:
> (I expect a patient and unbiased reading of the following without any dogmatic assertions).
> WHAT IS MEANT BY SATYA (TRUTH)?
> SATYA HAS BEEN DEFINED AS "THAT WHICH IS UNAFFECTED BY TIME, PLACE AND CAUSATION".
> THIS SIMPLY MEANS THAT "SATYA" STANDS FOR GOD, THE ABSOLUTE.
> SEVERAL SAHASRANAMAS USE THIS WORD TO DENOTE GOD.
> AN EXTENSION CAN BE "ANYTHING THAT HELPS A MAN'S PROGRESS TOWARDS GOD IS SATYA".
> ASATYA STANDS FOR ALL THAT IS OPPOSED TO SATYA.
> WHATEVER IS UNTRUE, UNREAL, EVIL AND CROOKED IS ASATYA.
> BRAHMAN IS THE ONLY REALITY AND THE WORLD AND THE INDIVIDUAL SOULS ARE NOT PERMANENT.
> APPARENT TRUTH OR ILLUSORY APPEARANCE, THE WORLD OF OUR DAY TO DAY
> EXPERIENCE AND THE ONLY TRUTH THAT REALLY EXISTS ARE THE THREE DEGREES
> OF REALITY.
> ALUR VENKATA RAO, A FAMOUS MADHVA PUNDIT QUOTES MADHVACHARYA THUS:-
> Alur venkatarao, a famous personality of karnataka has authored a book "Maadhvaru dwaithigalalla-poornatwavaadigalu". (Maadhvas are not dvaithis, they are poornatvavaadis). This has been published by jignaasa mandala granthamaale (1958). I learn that he has written 12 books on maadhva philosophy and is considered an authority on the subject. I quote a few slokas he has mentioned in this book to seek some more information from the learned members of the group. (if there could be any other meanings other than the obvious, i am interested to know).
> from maandookya upanishat-madhva bhaashya-
> DVAITHAM NA GRAAHAYET,MAAYAAMAATHRAMIDAM DVAITHAM,
> DVAITHAM DVIDHAGNAATHAM, DVAITHAM ANYATHA GNANAM.
> (don't accept dvaitha as it is incorrect.)
> MAAYAMAATRAMIDAM DVAITHAM, ADVAITHAM PARAMARTHATHAHA
> -from mandookya,madhva bhaashya.
> ( dvaitha is deceptive, Advaith is the ultimate)
> yathra hi dvaithamiva bhavathi thathrakim...
> (from brhadaranyaka IV- maithreyi brahmana)
> There are a few other quotations in the book too.
> To: USBrahmins at yahoogroups.com
> From: shiv_dinkar at ...
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 12:05:04 +0000
> Subject: [USBrahmins] Re: FW: "brahma satyam jagan mithya"-AN ADVICE TO READ BEFORE WRITING ON ADVAITA.
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