[Advaita-l] Ishwara Turiya?
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Thu Mar 8 05:37:24 CST 2012
Mandukya verses quoted state Ishwara is turiya.
What is the sastra pramana for the fifth state please? What are the
references to the fifth state in Sankara's works? When does this concept
first occur in the Advaita works?
On Thursday, March 8, 2012, Subramanian Balachandran <suba42 at gmail.com>
> The 4 states of consciousness are :
> Jaagrath Avasthaa – Wakeful State,
> Swapna Avastha – Dream State,
> Sooptha Avastha – Deep Sleep State,
> Thuriya Avastha - 4th State, In this 4th state, the body
> consciousness goes and only the “I” ness remains.
> There is one more state called Thiruyaatheetha Avastha as per Raaja
> YOga, where there is total Blackout. This state is not mentioned in
> Maandukya Upanishadh.
> Yes, Mandukya Upanishadh describes the 4th State Thiruya Avastha in
> Esha sarveshvara – It is the eashwra for all,
> Esha sarvagnya – it is omniscient,
> Esha antharyaam – it exists inside everything,
> Esha yOnihi – it is the cause of creation,
> Sarvasya prabhava abhyahouhi bhoothaanaam – is responsible for
> creation and destruction of all,
> Na antha pragyam – no inner consciousness,
> Na bahi pragyam – no outer consciousness,
> Na ubayathaha pragyam – no inner and outer consciousness together,
> Na pragyanaganam – not both the consciousnesses bundled into one,
> Na pragyam – no consciousness,
> Na apragyam – no unconsciousness,
> Adrushtam – unseen,
> Avyavahaaryam – undescribable,
> Agraahyam – non understandable,
> alakshaNam – without characteristics,
> achinthyam – non thinkable,
> avyapadeshyam – in explicable,
> Eka aathma prathyaya saaram – The aathman is only one,
> Prapancha upashamam – also beyond the Universe, (or beyond the creation),
> Shaantham – Peaceful,
> Shivam – Benevolent,
> Adhvaitham – Non Dual,
> Chathurtham - 4th State,
> Sa aathmaa sa vigyEyaha – thus should the aathman be known.
> Being a Raaja YOga practicer, I have gone through all these 5 states
> of consciousness, and as per RamaNa Maharishi and Nisargadatta
> Maharaj, the Brahman is normally in 5th State, Thuriyaatheetha Avastha
> and comes to Thuriya avastha when required, since Thuriya avastha –
> the “I” ness is required for creation.
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 3:08 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:19 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I was discussing with Sri Devanathan yesterday. He asserted that Ishwara
>>> is turiya. How can two scholars trained in the same school and even mutt
>>> differ on a basic point? It baffles me.
>> It baffles me too :)
>> Ishwara is the tattva which is within the realm of Maya. In fact Ishwara
>> is mAyopAdhikaH (maayinam tu maheshwaram). All the created world is
>> related to and within Ishwara. Beyond even Ishwara is the Turiya with no
>> connection with mAyA whatsoever. The seventh mantra of the Mandukya
>> Upanishad is the one on the Turiya. Here by the several words such as
>> prapanchopashamam etc. the Upanishad negates the entire creation along
>> Ishwara and shows the Absolute Truth and teaches that the knowledge of
>> Absolute is essential for liberation. Ishwara is within relativity and
>> Turiya is beyond.
>> There is no point in taking this up for further discussion. Our archives
>> will have a lot of posts on this topic which could be read. I would
>> suggest that a patient hearing of the CDs containing lectures in English
>> Swami Paramarthananda on the Mandukya Upanishad with the Gaudapada
>> kArikaa-s spanning over 80 hours so as to get a crystal clear
>> of the Advaita vedanta in all its several important aspects. This
>> of at least one hour listening per day will be found to be worth it.
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