[Advaita-l] Advaiti Response to this report?
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Wed Jan 11 01:44:25 CST 2012
2012/1/11 श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <lalitaalaalitah at gmail.com>
> *श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <http://www.lalitaalaalitah.com/>
> lalitAlAlitaH <http://about.me/lalitaalaalitah/bio>*
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 09:49, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
> > How can you say Parinami Nitya Vastu is Mithya.
> Yes, I suggested you this to ask to others who were replying in vague
> manner. So, I leave it to them to reply.
> > Svapna things are also real only because because they are existing for
> > limited time and then vanish.
यद्रूपेण यन्निश्चितं तद्रूपं यन्न व्यभिचरति, तत् सत्यम् । यद्रूपेण
यन्निश्चितं तत् तद्रूपं व्यभिचरति, तदनृतमित्युच्यते । अतो विकारोऽनृतम्,
’वाचारंभणं विकारो नामधेयं मृत्तिकेत्येव सत्यम्’, एवं सदेव सत्यम्
//As for satyam, a thing is said to be satyam, true, when it does not
change the nature that is ascertained to be its own; and a thing is said to
be unreal when it changes the nature that is ascertained to be its own. Hence
a mutable thing is unreal, for in the text, ‘All transformation has speech
as its basis, and it is name only. Clay as such is the reality.’
(Chandogya Up. 6.1.4), it has been emphasized that, that alone is true that
Exists (Ch.Up. 6.2.1)
Also in the commentary to the Gita verse 2.16, the Acharya says:
यद्विषया बुद्धिर्न व्यभिचरति तत्सत्, यद्विषया व्यभिचरति तदसत् …।
[That is said to be Real, of which our consciousness never fails; and that
Unreal, of which our consciousness fails.]
An article detailing this concept of 'anitya is asatya' can be accessed
In the case of a rope-snake illusion the snake is held to be / experienced
to be real for some time. Later when baadhaka jnaana arises the snake is
realized to be mithya. Even here the snake was experienced to be real for
some time and the anityatva is not in doubt; yet the asatyatva is also
proved subsequently. In a dream too the objects/events are experienced for
a while; anityatva is there and yet when waking occurs they undergo
baadha. In all these instances the pattern is: the experience of reality
is had, though for a temporary period, and WHEN ANOTHER STATE ARISES ALONE
the baadha is experienced. Thus for rope-snake experience, the subsequent
rope-jnana state has to arise and for the dream experience the subsequent
waking has to arise. In the same way even the anitya experience of the
world/samsara is held to be baadhita ONLY WHEN THE SUBSEQUENT STATE OF
BRAHMA JNANA/DRISHTI ARISES and not before. So, avasthAntara is a must and
ONLY in that / from that avasthaa standpoint Advaita teaches mithyAtva of
swapna and all the world/samsara experiences. So, anityatve sati uttaratra
avasthAntarOditabAdhakajnAne satyeva mithyAtvapratipAdanam.
Shankara's initial definition of satya/anRta shown by me above from the
Taittiriya Bhashyam can be seen to apply perfectly well in the rope-snake,
dream and the world /samsara experiences. There is no strength in the
argument that 'things are experienced for a short while and then vanish but
they are real'. VikAravattva (parinAmavattva) is held to be the hetu for
asatyatva by the Shruti/Shankara. So, parinaaminitya/pravAhanitya is also
ultimately mithyA only.
> Have you read madhwa-s properly or are you just saying and asking anything
> according to your understanding?
> In order to reply properly, I need an educated opponent.
> Why am I saying this ?
> Because, you once said that silver is asat and now you are saying that
> dream is real and existing. Be consistent.
> > If you say you cannot drink pot water
> > from dream and become satisfied what is your point? You are saying
> > something must be useful to be real. Arthakriya Karitva. You are
> > saying a thing with some use and purpose is existing otherwise not.
> > This is not correct. Because there are many useless things in life in
> > waking also like a star in the sky. It is not helping us but you are
> > not saying it is a dream object. A star in the sky is real like the
> > sun and moon. The sun and moon are giving light but the star light
> > cannot help us.
> And this is why I asked you to declare your definitions of real, unreal,
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