[Advaita-l] Can a mithyA-vastu produce an effect? असत्यवस्तुनः अर्थक्रियाकारित्वम्
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 26 17:22:42 CDT 2011
Sunilji - PraNAms
Since the discussion is from the absolute point, which is Brahma, and the very word is to designate the infiniteness which cannot be defined, there cannot be any creation what so ever - That is logical and scriptural too which Goudapaada emphasizes as ajaati vaada.
Logically even the word infiniteness or anantatvam is only to negate 1. Any finiteness and 2. To negate any divisions since infinite cannot be divided. (Bhagavan Ramunuja says similar to adviata that there are no sajaati, vijaati bhedaas but he says it has swagata bhedaas or internal differences - there is a logical problem there). From Advaita point, all the descriptions of creation are only relatively valid and are provided for a jiiva, who sees the creation and asks who created this world? Hence out of compassions, scriptures start with creation but negate that later, which advaita coins the word for the procedure as adhyaaropa apavaada.
In adhyaaropa, one can have any models of whatever you want as long as one negates all that in the final analysis. I will put tantric view that you mentioned also in the same vein.
The scriptures themselves provides the appropriate examples for creation - like gold becoming ornaments or mud becoming pots or iron becoming iron tools - these are transformation-less transformations or apparent transformations since gold remains as gold yet there are varieties of ornaments - hence the creation is vaachaarambhanam vikaaraH - or namkevaste creation. From the gold point there is no creation - na cha mastaani bhuutani - from absolute point there are no beings here, even though from relative point there appears to be a creation, as Krishna pointed out in the sloka just before this.
Logically also there cannot be anything real other than Brahman - hence aham brahma asmi has to follow even logically too. However if one asks- How can I be the world? - In order to establish that only we need pramaaNa, which Vedanta provides - with declaration - na iha naanaa asti kincana - sarvam khalu idam brahma - three is nothing here what so ever and everything is nothing but Brahman- a declaration that only a conscious entity can make, while it cannot negate itself. I can negate everything - the world and the creator of the world when I go to deep sleep state - however I can never negate myself. That remains the essential truth that Vedanta declares - via Mandukya Upanishad in Mantra 7.
Bhagavan Ramanuja has self-consistent model up to the description of Brahman and the moksha, which do not stand the scrutiny of scriptures and the logic. Goudapaada takes up all the dualistic philosophies and dismisses them both logically and scripturally in his kaarikas. As a side info. I am currently taking this text and those who are interested can get the talk series through a link www.advaitaforum.org under other talks.
--- On Tue, 4/26/11, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
As regards the creation the Tantric view is as follows: The Kalivilasa Tantra says that the thought of becoming mother came to Mother Gauri and
that thought / desire make her assume the form of Mother Kali (literally probably the master of time), who is the
Primordial Mahavidya or the first of the ten Mahavidyas.
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