[Advaita-l] Knowledge, renunciation and varNASrama rules - Is sanyasa ashrama sweekaram a must
rishyasrunga at rediffmail.com
Wed Sep 1 02:35:25 CDT 2010
Tam adbutam balakam ambujekshanam
Shrivatsalakshmam galashobi kaustubham
Pitambaram Sandra payoda saubagam
Maharha vaidurya kirita kundala
Tvisha parishvakta sahasra kundalam
Uddama kanchyangada kankanadibir
Virochamanam vasudeva aikshata
Shriman Praveen Bhat and dear all Gokulashtami greetings, Radhe Krishna
I was unwell and was not able to continue. I read again the posts of Shriman vidyasankar, Venkatesh Murthy and Shri Jaldhar Vyas on this thread with specific focus on Sanyasa Ashrama. In the very first post of this thread, shriman Vidyasankar said he modified name of the subject. So, I went back to the thread, “Whether Arjuna was aproksha gnyani” and read the discussions there too. I hope I have answers.
Regarding what you said, “Thanks for indulging me in it, though I have been of no help”, IMHO, your deliberations helped me to understand the issue in a different perspective.
Under the thread “Whether Arjuna was aproksha gnyani” Shriman Jaldhar vyas wrote :
“A jnani will always be a sannyasi even if he starts in another ashrama because jnana necessarily implies vairagya and distaste for material posessions etc. He may not have danda or kamandalu etc. These things are governed by shastras so there may well be restrictions of various kinds but the core values of sannyasa are capable of being practised by anyone with the right qualifications. Even in the case of institutional sannyasa it is not always so cut and dry”
Again, Shriman Vidyasankar in the thread, Knowledge, renunciation and varNASrama rules says :
In the case of vidvat saMnyAsa, the renunciation of everything by the brahmajnAnI, no rules really apply.
Now from the above it is apparent, that both Jada Bharatha and Bhagawan Ramana who are described as brahmanishtaal by sishtaas, the fact that Bhagawan Ramana discarded upavitam and Jada Bharatha even after being in a state of "svatamalabadigamah" was wearing upavitam have no relevance because, as I read back from above that “In the case of vidvat saMnyAsa, the renunciation of everything by the brahmajnAnI, no rules really apply”
So to my sanka as to what is insisted is ritually initiated sanyasa ashrama sweekaram or the fact of being in a state of sanyasa by a person bestowed with sadana sampath, I understand that “being in a state of sanyasa by a person bestowed with sadana sampath” may be construed as sanyasa in spite of not being initiated to sanyasa ashrama. What is to be looked into is whether core values of sannyasa are being practiced. This is without prejudice to my utmost faith in Traditional Sanyasa.
I have better clarity now on this issue and go to my next sanka.
To my next sanka as to who can be sanyasins, I go through the following discussions :
As said by Shriman Vidyasankar,
The writings of Sankara bhagavatpAda and sureSvarAcArya are very clear in cognizing that all dvija-s, not just brAhmaNa-s, have recourse to vaidika saMnyAsa.
The most orthodox SankarAcArya institutions in India have historically recognized those who are born non-dvija males, but are eligible for saMnyAsa.
And as said by Shriman Jaldhar Vyas :
Had Venkateshamurti restricted his argument to the idea that this is a different type of sannyasa to shrotriya Brahmanas everyone would have agreed with him.
>From the above, I deduce that
1. All dvija “males” have recourse to “Vaidika” saMnyAsa
2. The non dvija males and sthris are entitled to renounce and the “type” of their sannyasa may be different from that of “shrothriya Brahmanas” and the same would not of “Vaidika” form although the traditional monasteries recognize them.
The second one is what I deduced and I do not know the actual position.
My real concern is what is the expected code of conduct of brahmanas to sthri shudradi sanysins ( Not vidvat sanyasins)? Should the brahmana males pay their obeisance to these people with a sashtanga namaskara and offer anna bhiksha?
In the sishtachara code as conveyed to me by my elders which I passed on to the next generation, we (brahmanas) are not supposed to pay obeisance to people of other varnas irrespective of their age with a sashtanga namaskara. Does the fact of them embracing sanyasa requires modification in the code being followed?
May someone please clarify?
Maivam viborhati bhavan gaditum nrusamsam
Santyajya sarva vishayan tava pada mulam
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