[Advaita-l] (no subject)
sivanr8010 at bsnl.in
Sun Mar 28 18:09:54 CDT 2010
The concept of secularism according to SanAthana Dharma has been discussed in
detail by Jagadguru Chandrasekhara Bharathi Mahaswamikal of Sringeri Sarada
Peetom.Every Indian can get a crystal clear idea about secularis from it. Refer the
title 'Dialogues with the Guru' available either from Sringeri Mutt or from
---- Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am willing to enter into a discourse with you on what is secularism in the
> Indian context and how it affects Sanathana Dharma through private email in
> order that we do not upset the moderators of this august forum. I hope it
> is acceptable to you.
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Tanushree Bagrodia <
> tanushree.bagrodia at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Mr. Anbu Sivam,
> > This is a post which I am writing after reading the email trail for the
> > last
> > week on the forms of Guru, and what needs to be done to “save” Hinduism
> > from
> > secularism.
> > To begin with, I am not crystal clear as to the definition of secular
> > intended in the emails. If it is separation of religion and state that is
> > secularism and that is attacking Hinduism then I am perplexed, as you
> > yourself mention that the politicians are using temples as cash cows. In
> > such a situation, secularism as separation of the state and religion will
> > only be beneficial.
> > If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of other religions
> > attacking
> > Hinduism then all I would say is that Advaita Vedanta teaches us (or at
> > least that is my understanding) that there is one Brahman as the one
> > infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent, transcendent reality. If indeed there is
> > only one Brahman, then whichever way an individual decides to attain jnana
> > and remove the difference between the jiva-atman and Brahman, the goal is
> > ultimately to realize the Brahman. So when it is only the means of reaching
> > the end goal different, how can one way bring disaster on the other, unless
> > those deciding to take one path interfere in the decision of the others?
> > The
> > disaster strikes when followers of one path start to believe that everyone
> > else is wrong and forcefully try to change the beliefs of all others. Those
> > who are steadfast on their decision and understand that each individual has
> > his/her own decided path (such are the ones I call secular) do not disturb
> > the peace of the others or let themselves be affected by the path of other
> > groups. Hinduism as referred to today is a phrase that was popularized by
> > the English language to denote the Vedic, religious and philosophical
> > traditions of India. It is in fact Sanatan Dharma that we all are referring
> > to as Hinduism. Sanatan Dharma comprises of spiritual laws that govern
> > human
> > existence, and the same can be found in the varied scriptures. However,
> > beneath the umbrella of Sanatan Dharma there are a number of other currents
> > that have been formed which are now acknowledged as varied forms of
> > Hinduism. However, whichever branch of Hinduism we refer to, at the end of
> > it, all of it culminates into Sanatan Dharma. This means that Sanatan
> > Dharma
> > itself allows for varied paths to be followed and is indifferent to the
> > decision of the path taken to attain the absolute truth.
> > If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of non-sampradaya spiritual
> > leaders, I would tend to think that those blessed with the benefit of
> > having
> > a Guru with roots in a tradition have it in them to educate the others of
> > the true Sanatan Dharma. In none of these three cases do I see the need of
> > another distinctive set of “kshtriyas” required to save dharma. At the end
> > of the day if each one of us follows the principles of sanatan dharma,
> > imparts our own learning to the interested individuals around us, we will
> > be
> > filling the vacuum that is created automatically albeit slowly. At the same
> > time, pro-actively, we will empower the person we are sharing the knowledge
> > with to be able to further discuss this without any doubt and give
> > confidence. Hence our own learning and understanding can help propagate the
> > right form and slowly fill the void created.
> > If we were to make the right efforts, all of us can be the kshtriyas
> > required and help propagate the true form of dharma.
> > **
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:50:29 -0400
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Guru - yoga -jnana
> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> > <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <f65008471003221650i3e2c001dx2601c15dea53d634 at mail.gmail.com
> > >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > Dear Vidyasankarji,
> > "What better way to fight the "guru proliferation" as you call it (and
> > the secularism that you hold responsible for it) than to hold on to
> > the traditional concept of Guru?"
> > This is a myopic view. It shows you care little for the disaster that
> > secularism has brought to Hinduism over centuries, on the plea you are
> > holding on to the traditional view. This is really burying one's head in
> > the sand.
> > "Why don't we all just gather the
> > courage to say, "this is our tradition, we will privilege it and preserve
> > it to the best of our ability"? Everything else will follow naturally."
> > Great! I like the declaration! However I do not understand the last
> > sentence viz. "Everything else will follow naturally." Can you be more
> > specific? I can only think that the consequences are that we would
> > increasingly be attacked and we may have to attack back one time or another
> > just as Swamy Vidyaranya did. That is my understanding of human reaction.
> > "Suffice it to say that a traditional
> > individual can live without problems in a nation that is secular in its
> > governance."
> > This is not a fact. Were it a fact I and others would not have raised it.
> > I wish to remind you of the difference between the secular laws made by man
> > and the dhaarmic laws which |I hope you cherish as you the fondness for the
> > Vedas. Human laws are biased, totally adhoc and is suppressive in the end.
> > I realize that this is not the focus of this list as you might come to lay
> > it down as the owner/moderator but that is no reason to brush it under the
> > carpet if the intention is not to escape facing the problem.
> > "All this talk of traditional institutions and their leadership vis-a-vis
> > the so-called "pAmara jana" completely overlooks one point. Why
> > should it be the responsibility of an institution like a SAnkara maTha
> > to do exactly what the institutions of a proselytizing religion do?"
> > Mainly because there are this Guru and Ashram proliferations occuring to
> > fill the gap that is causing havoc to the Hindus. Many of us are crying
> > out
> > loud to the traditional institutions because of our trust in them to come
> > together and play a more pro-active role instead of vegetating.
> > "What happened to the responsibility of every individual in society
> > who does not count himself or herself as part of this "pAmara jana"?"
> > Sure they have responsibilities. That is why they beseech to the time
> > tested traditional institutions to come together and save Sanaathana Dharma
> > instead of acting like a 'bramin' institution catering to this small varNa
> > even after they on both sides of the isle have thrown away their
> > yagnopaveetham (one as a sanyasi and another turning into a vaisya while
> > trying to talk vedantha for fun).
> > Regards,
> > Anbu
> > > On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "As long as these leaders and the institutions they run are not
> > frauds,
> > > > and
> > > > their goals are not anti social, adhArmic, there should be no
> > condemning
> > > of
> > > > them. Leaders, especially with charisma are looked upon by those
> > special
> > > > groups, who indeed form the majority of our society, as those who can
> > > take
> > > > them up the spiritual ladder."
> > > >
> > > > I completely agree with Subramanianji on this.
> > > >
> > > > Swamy Nithyaananda is a blend of Ramakrishna Mission with his own roots
> > > in
> > > > Thiruvannamalai and Ramana Maharshi. He is more of a Hindu than
> > > > Ramakrishna
> > > > Mission. He is no different from Swamy Chinmayananda or Swamy
> > Dhayananda
> > > > except that he has more native followings.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect the hand of Christian Missionaries who are international in
> > > > character and the ever detracting culprits of adharmic secularists in
> > the
> > > > media, never ending vishamis of the Dravidian politicians and their
> > > > constant robbing of properties of peaceful citizens using goondaism and
> > > > blackmail and so on. Our Hindu temples are owned and operated by the
> > > > politicians as their cash cow. There are no kshathriyas to protect our
> > > > dharma. We all have to wake up to this reality while talking
> > philosophy.
> > > >
> > > > Since the advent of secularism the varnasrama dharma has gravely
> > > weakened.
> > > > This has not only created confusion on the minds of the janas on their
> > > > purushaartha but also not provided guidance from Madaadhipathis who
> > were
> > > > increasingly getting into their shell away from the common folks. The
> > > > vacuum got filled by spiritual leaders from non-sampradhaaya traditions
> > > > many
> > > > of whom are doing a great job of unifying the Hindus thirsting for
> > > > spiritual
> > > > guidance. Peetaadhipathis like Kanchi Aachaarya also walked into Chery
> > > to
> > > > meet with paamara janas in order to stop conversion. I do not think
> > > other
> > > > traditional Achaaryas such as Sringeri Achaarya would venture into such
> > > > revolutionary act. Swamy Chinmayananda and Swamy Dhayaananda do not
> > > belong
> > > > to Sampradhaaya traditions. In fact they belonged to the elitist group
> > > who
> > > > completely shunned Karma Kaanda but people like Sathya Sai Bhaaba
> > conduct
> > > > yagnas.
> > > >
> > > > But all these non-traditional Swamys are a source of inspiration for
> > the
> > > > Hindu diaspora abroad who for all practical purposes have given up on
> > > > varnaasrama dharma. In some sense they do peddle yoga, thanthra and
> > > > gnyaana
> > > > to Hindus of Indian origin and non-Hindus who are dissatisfied with
> > their
> > > > own religion. In a way they are more rooted in the west. In India
> > > > Ramakrishna Mission got attacked by the secularists and so they had to
> > > say
> > > > they are their own religion different from mainstream Hindus in order
> > to
> > > > save themselves from the attack from the secular laws.
> > > >
> > > > Thus we should all realize that secularism is the main cause for the
> > > attack
> > > > on Hinduism and the only way to protect Hinduism is the revival of the
> > > > Kshathriyas. Sri Aurobhindho advocated this but it is yet to be
> > > fulfilled.
> > > >
> > > > Om Sri GurubyO Namaha
> > > > Anbu
> > --
> > When someone makes a decision,
> > he is plunging into a rushing torrent
> > that could lead him to a place
> > he had never dreamed of going
> > when he made that decision.
> > The Alchemist
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