[Advaita-l] (no subject)
anbesivam2 at gmail.com
Sun Mar 28 15:38:06 CDT 2010
I am willing to enter into a discourse with you on what is secularism in the
Indian context and how it affects Sanathana Dharma through private email in
order that we do not upset the moderators of this august forum. I hope it
is acceptable to you.
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Tanushree Bagrodia <
tanushree.bagrodia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr. Anbu Sivam,
> This is a post which I am writing after reading the email trail for the
> week on the forms of Guru, and what needs to be done to “save” Hinduism
> To begin with, I am not crystal clear as to the definition of secular
> intended in the emails. If it is separation of religion and state that is
> secularism and that is attacking Hinduism then I am perplexed, as you
> yourself mention that the politicians are using temples as cash cows. In
> such a situation, secularism as separation of the state and religion will
> only be beneficial.
> If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of other religions
> Hinduism then all I would say is that Advaita Vedanta teaches us (or at
> least that is my understanding) that there is one Brahman as the one
> infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent, transcendent reality. If indeed there is
> only one Brahman, then whichever way an individual decides to attain jnana
> and remove the difference between the jiva-atman and Brahman, the goal is
> ultimately to realize the Brahman. So when it is only the means of reaching
> the end goal different, how can one way bring disaster on the other, unless
> those deciding to take one path interfere in the decision of the others?
> disaster strikes when followers of one path start to believe that everyone
> else is wrong and forcefully try to change the beliefs of all others. Those
> who are steadfast on their decision and understand that each individual has
> his/her own decided path (such are the ones I call secular) do not disturb
> the peace of the others or let themselves be affected by the path of other
> groups. Hinduism as referred to today is a phrase that was popularized by
> the English language to denote the Vedic, religious and philosophical
> traditions of India. It is in fact Sanatan Dharma that we all are referring
> to as Hinduism. Sanatan Dharma comprises of spiritual laws that govern
> existence, and the same can be found in the varied scriptures. However,
> beneath the umbrella of Sanatan Dharma there are a number of other currents
> that have been formed which are now acknowledged as varied forms of
> Hinduism. However, whichever branch of Hinduism we refer to, at the end of
> it, all of it culminates into Sanatan Dharma. This means that Sanatan
> itself allows for varied paths to be followed and is indifferent to the
> decision of the path taken to attain the absolute truth.
> If secularism is intended to mean proliferation of non-sampradaya spiritual
> leaders, I would tend to think that those blessed with the benefit of
> a Guru with roots in a tradition have it in them to educate the others of
> the true Sanatan Dharma. In none of these three cases do I see the need of
> another distinctive set of “kshtriyas” required to save dharma. At the end
> of the day if each one of us follows the principles of sanatan dharma,
> imparts our own learning to the interested individuals around us, we will
> filling the vacuum that is created automatically albeit slowly. At the same
> time, pro-actively, we will empower the person we are sharing the knowledge
> with to be able to further discuss this without any doubt and give
> confidence. Hence our own learning and understanding can help propagate the
> right form and slowly fill the void created.
> If we were to make the right efforts, all of us can be the kshtriyas
> required and help propagate the true form of dharma.
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:50:29 -0400
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Guru - yoga -jnana
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> <f65008471003221650i3e2c001dx2601c15dea53d634 at mail.gmail.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Dear Vidyasankarji,
> "What better way to fight the "guru proliferation" as you call it (and
> the secularism that you hold responsible for it) than to hold on to
> the traditional concept of Guru?"
> This is a myopic view. It shows you care little for the disaster that
> secularism has brought to Hinduism over centuries, on the plea you are
> holding on to the traditional view. This is really burying one's head in
> the sand.
> "Why don't we all just gather the
> courage to say, "this is our tradition, we will privilege it and preserve
> it to the best of our ability"? Everything else will follow naturally."
> Great! I like the declaration! However I do not understand the last
> sentence viz. "Everything else will follow naturally." Can you be more
> specific? I can only think that the consequences are that we would
> increasingly be attacked and we may have to attack back one time or another
> just as Swamy Vidyaranya did. That is my understanding of human reaction.
> "Suffice it to say that a traditional
> individual can live without problems in a nation that is secular in its
> This is not a fact. Were it a fact I and others would not have raised it.
> I wish to remind you of the difference between the secular laws made by man
> and the dhaarmic laws which |I hope you cherish as you the fondness for the
> Vedas. Human laws are biased, totally adhoc and is suppressive in the end.
> I realize that this is not the focus of this list as you might come to lay
> it down as the owner/moderator but that is no reason to brush it under the
> carpet if the intention is not to escape facing the problem.
> "All this talk of traditional institutions and their leadership vis-a-vis
> the so-called "pAmara jana" completely overlooks one point. Why
> should it be the responsibility of an institution like a SAnkara maTha
> to do exactly what the institutions of a proselytizing religion do?"
> Mainly because there are this Guru and Ashram proliferations occuring to
> fill the gap that is causing havoc to the Hindus. Many of us are crying
> loud to the traditional institutions because of our trust in them to come
> together and play a more pro-active role instead of vegetating.
> "What happened to the responsibility of every individual in society
> who does not count himself or herself as part of this "pAmara jana"?"
> Sure they have responsibilities. That is why they beseech to the time
> tested traditional institutions to come together and save Sanaathana Dharma
> instead of acting like a 'bramin' institution catering to this small varNa
> even after they on both sides of the isle have thrown away their
> yagnopaveetham (one as a sanyasi and another turning into a vaisya while
> trying to talk vedantha for fun).
> > On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > "As long as these leaders and the institutions they run are not
> > > and
> > > their goals are not anti social, adhArmic, there should be no
> > of
> > > them. Leaders, especially with charisma are looked upon by those
> > > groups, who indeed form the majority of our society, as those who can
> > take
> > > them up the spiritual ladder."
> > >
> > > I completely agree with Subramanianji on this.
> > >
> > > Swamy Nithyaananda is a blend of Ramakrishna Mission with his own roots
> > in
> > > Thiruvannamalai and Ramana Maharshi. He is more of a Hindu than
> > > Ramakrishna
> > > Mission. He is no different from Swamy Chinmayananda or Swamy
> > > except that he has more native followings.
> > >
> > > I suspect the hand of Christian Missionaries who are international in
> > > character and the ever detracting culprits of adharmic secularists in
> > > media, never ending vishamis of the Dravidian politicians and their
> > > constant robbing of properties of peaceful citizens using goondaism and
> > > blackmail and so on. Our Hindu temples are owned and operated by the
> > > politicians as their cash cow. There are no kshathriyas to protect our
> > > dharma. We all have to wake up to this reality while talking
> > >
> > > Since the advent of secularism the varnasrama dharma has gravely
> > weakened.
> > > This has not only created confusion on the minds of the janas on their
> > > purushaartha but also not provided guidance from Madaadhipathis who
> > > increasingly getting into their shell away from the common folks. The
> > > vacuum got filled by spiritual leaders from non-sampradhaaya traditions
> > > many
> > > of whom are doing a great job of unifying the Hindus thirsting for
> > > spiritual
> > > guidance. Peetaadhipathis like Kanchi Aachaarya also walked into Chery
> > to
> > > meet with paamara janas in order to stop conversion. I do not think
> > other
> > > traditional Achaaryas such as Sringeri Achaarya would venture into such
> > > revolutionary act. Swamy Chinmayananda and Swamy Dhayaananda do not
> > belong
> > > to Sampradhaaya traditions. In fact they belonged to the elitist group
> > who
> > > completely shunned Karma Kaanda but people like Sathya Sai Bhaaba
> > > yagnas.
> > >
> > > But all these non-traditional Swamys are a source of inspiration for
> > > Hindu diaspora abroad who for all practical purposes have given up on
> > > varnaasrama dharma. In some sense they do peddle yoga, thanthra and
> > > gnyaana
> > > to Hindus of Indian origin and non-Hindus who are dissatisfied with
> > > own religion. In a way they are more rooted in the west. In India
> > > Ramakrishna Mission got attacked by the secularists and so they had to
> > say
> > > they are their own religion different from mainstream Hindus in order
> > > save themselves from the attack from the secular laws.
> > >
> > > Thus we should all realize that secularism is the main cause for the
> > attack
> > > on Hinduism and the only way to protect Hinduism is the revival of the
> > > Kshathriyas. Sri Aurobhindho advocated this but it is yet to be
> > fulfilled.
> > >
> > > Om Sri GurubyO Namaha
> > > Anbu
> When someone makes a decision,
> he is plunging into a rushing torrent
> that could lead him to a place
> he had never dreamed of going
> when he made that decision.
> The Alchemist
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