[Advaita-l] (no subject)

Anbu sivam2 anbesivam2 at gmail.com
Fri Mar 26 15:58:16 CDT 2010

Dear Andreas,

Your have raised some good points.

I did tell you that you can do whatever you want but I did not mean that
there will not be  consequences.

Even in the western religion a person is judged for his actions and is sent
to heaven or hell for ever, all on the basis of his actions in one single
life that is short or long, fully equipped or ill-equipped.  Even in this
world the ruler of the land has authority over you and judge your actions
and punish a transgression of the law he has laid.  If you are one of those
who accept that there is consequence for your action then you would
condition your action in such a way that the consequence is not
unpleasant.   In other words, your free-will has limitation galore.  Did you
consider that?

Suppose you contend that no one should judge your actions, you still have to
contend with the lack of abilities to do what you want and the obstacles
that may thwart your desire. Hindus contend this limitation in the idea of

So you have to be clear to yourself as to how free is the free-will that you
are talking about.

You have said: "I didn´t remember my previous births and the times when I
have to enjoy or to suffer for my previous deeds are unknown to me.

Will such knowledge really help you or disturb you?  The entire life is one
of dhukkam only and who wants to know what all one has to suffer?

The third point you have raised is:  "Is there an action possible that
completely new and uninfluenced by the past karma."

No one can do anything new without recourse to some knowledge and experience
gained by some past actions.  You would agree that most of the time this
past knowledge and experience play an unconscious role.   We merely extend
this idea to our experiences in previous life.  In our concept even Easwara
when he re-creates the world he recalls his past.  (In our concept there is
no first creation for all that is created is destroyed and then recreated.
Thus there is no way an initial creation can be satisfactorily established.)

The fourth point you have raised is as follows:

"If all my actions in life were  destined, whenever I have done an action in
this life in the impression of free will then it means the idea of a free
will is just an illusion of my mind, because the real source of my actions
is always karma."

If you are bringing in the idea of illusion about your free-will, then let
me add to it that the karma per se is equally an illusion, for you and I are
one Parabrahmam and there is nothing other than this Brahmam.  No world, no
karma and no suffering, not now, not in the past and neither in the future.
In fact there is no time at all for us! There is nothing different from us.
No sajaatheeya, vijaatheeya and swagatha bEdham.

I am going to keep the concept of karma and karmaphala in some detail in
another post for that  needs your whole attention.  I will deal with why the
idea of destiny is involved in it.

In sum and substance please understand that you are Brahman who is
completely and totally free however due to beginningless avidhya you have
forgotton your nature. Such an urge for realization does not occur to anyone
unless he is accutely aware of his sufferings and yearn for the release.


On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > PranAm Anbu Sivam,
> >
> > thank you for your explanation. In the view of studentship it helped me.
> But the law of karma is the reason for my problems with the free will. How
> can there be free will, if the actions in the circle of life are ruled
> completely by karma?
> >
> Any karmA requires a kartA, a doer. However, no one can perform any action
> without escaping its consequences. The doer, the kartA, is also
> nececssarily
> an experiencer, the bhoktA. Unless there is a place for both doer-ship and
> experiencer-ship, with all that these two entail for the freedom or
> otherwise
> of the doer-cum-experiencer, the law of karmA doesn't even begin to
> operate.
> vedAnta teaches you that doership is itself an illusion, but this is a
> higher
> level truth, transcending both free will and destiny, as also the law of
> karmA.
> Realizing this liberates you from being an experiencer also and from the
> circle
> of life and death. Till such time, however, so long as you still wrestle
> with the
> notion of being a doer, what the law of karmA does for you is to place you
> in
> situations where you experience the fruits of your past karmA and give you
> chances to do new actions. You had to have been a kartA in the past, in
> order
> to be a bhoktA in the present and you need to be a kartA in the present, in
> order to be a bhoktA in future.
> The momentum of your previous actions does not predetermine every little
> action that you do now, but it does influence you in how you make your
> choices,
> by influencing what it is that you desire, what you find repulsive, what
> you are
> indifferent towards, etc. ISvara as the giver of fruits of action is like a
> judge.
> He may find you not-guilty of a given offence, but that does not completely
> ensure that you will never commit that offence in future. He may find you
> guilty of some offence and award an appropriate sentence, but does not
> prevent you from trying to set it right at a future time. So long as you
> consider yourself a doer of actions and an experiencer of their results,
> you have and need a mixture of destiny and will. Destiny is not ironclad
> and immutable, and will is not completely free!
> Regards,
> Vidyasankar
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