[Advaita-l] The Treatment of Avidya in Advaita - Part 1
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Wed Apr 28 04:18:33 CDT 2010
sAshtAnga praNAms Sri Vidya prabhuji
I think this line of argument is getting really ridiculous. Bhaskar,
you requested me to ignore your postings and although Sri Subrahmanian
can answer your comments directly, let me make some observations here,
beginning with stating my admiration of your penchant to argue everything
with such enthusiasm too!
> Thanks for your kind compliments prabhuji...As you know, if at all I am
able to speak face to face today on advaita vedAnta with the professional
vedAntins like Sri Subbu prabhuji, it is only yours & Sri Jaldhar vyas
prabhuji's 'krupAkatAksha'...there is nothing that can be claimed as
'mine' (OK, but I own the responsibility of misunderstanding of shankara
vedAnta, since you are saying that :-))Thus, when it comes to debating
issues, normally I donot want to engage myself in arguments with both of
you...Below, prabhuji, you can just see my blunt observations on your
mail. Once again, I may sound argumentative here but that is not my
intention prabhuji, it is like that simply because I donot know better way
to express my thoughts. Anyway, whatever you say in reply, is the final
word prabhuji, there will be no more mails to you in this thread from me.
When someone examines any topic in advaita and makes an observation
or conclusion different from yours (by this I mean not you alone
but many people wedded to the particular interpretation of Sri SSS), the
response is, (a) one should look only at the adhyAsa-bhAshya, either in
exclusion to everything else or as a yardstick to measure everything else,
> No prabhuji, we the followers of Sri SSS, in this particular thread on
avidyA (kindly see the subject heading 'TREATMENT OF AVIDYA IN ADVAITA')
saying for any clarification on avidyA/adhyAsa, shankara's adhyAsa bhAshya
is the right source because as you know, shankara has exclusively written
about this very concept.
(b) why read so many other commentators?, or
> yes, because, commentators are not at all unanimous in their opinion &
shankara's bhAshya is self sufficient.
(c) why spend so much time on avidyA, rather than on vidyA?, or
> I've not said this prabhuji How can I??!! when I love 'avidyA' topic
(d) how is this relevant for a jignAsu who is not interested in
> Yes, for a sincere seeker (mumukshu) these hair splitting arguments
based on mUlabhAshya, vArtika-s, vyAkhyAna-s, prakaraNa grantha-s etc.
etc. not at all necessary, it rather confuses & complicates his mOksha
sAdhana way!! But for the loquacious characters like me these hair
splitting arguments is a worthy pastime at office:-))
However, when you want to examine the same topic in advaita and get
into hair-splitting arguments over whether the adhyAsa-bhAshya should
be privileged over all other texts, or when you want to dismiss other sub-
commentators as having fundamentally misunderstood everything, or
when you want to examine avidyA in order to debunk what others say
about it, the answer to others is that they are taking things "out of
> I am not able to get your point prabhuji..I am not saying adhyAsa
bhAshya is the source material to understand whole of shankara bhAshya...I
am just saying to understand particular topic adhyAsa/avidya, shankara's
introduction to sUtra bhAshya is right source, if it is not kindly let me
know the other source..And with regard to my slogan 'out of context' :-))
I think I have clarified why I am thinking so and Smt. Savitri mAtAji also
confirmed how the bhAshya quoted on liberation is totally irrelevant to
the present context of the discussion.
Sorry, it doesn't work this way on a discussion list. The context doesn't
get to be decided unilaterally by any one party in a debate or
discussion.The context is established initially by the first poster in any
given thread; it gets refined as others post their own thoughts and may
to a completely different emphasis as the discussion progresses. That is
why we use the device of changing the subject line every so often.
> if the context itself is a debatable issue where is the question of
discussion & debates prabhuji?? we should keep on getting clarification
from both the parties every time we hear from them..:-)) If you say
context itself is not static & emphasization changes from mail to mail
then there will be no concrete 'vishaya' to discuss..is it not prabhuji??
Anyway, even if we agree with your above observation, in the present
thread those developments have yet to take place and context is yet to
change from 'avidya' & its svarUpa to 'mukti' and its means.
If a discussion of avidyA and adhyAsa in the prasthAna trayI bhAshyas is
not intimately tied to a vicAra of bandha-moksha and does not directly
lead to a discussion of bandha and moksha, I fail to see what will. And if
one cannot quote a sentence about moksha when analyzing the cause for
bandha, when indeed can that sentence be
> IMO, though adhyAsa/avidyA vichAra has the intimate relationship with
bandha-mOksha vichAra, the discussion here is still at the stage of
avidyA, its svarUpa, its lakshaNa, the usage of the term etc. So, that is
the reason why I said the discussion is ALL ABOUT avidyA vichAra & its
intricacies & implications in advaita..We are yet to take the topic of
mOksha that annihilates the bandha completely..Without understanding this
simple issue, Sri subbu prabhuji, all of a sudden come out with a bhAshya
quote on 'mOksha' vichAra..As you know, bandha & mOksha vichAra are
mutually different issues altogether. This is the reason why I reiterated
quoting the bhAshya vAkya in support of mOksha when bandha is the issue
for discussion is totally out of context..
FYI, Sankara bhagavatpAda does not give any title to his introduction to
the sUtrabhAshya. The "adhyAsa bhAshya" is a title given by others to this
small portion of his vast writings.
> Through your krupa, I know this simple vichAra prabhuji..But I dont
know how this fact has any bearing on our ongoing discussion !!??
Almost every upanishad bhAshya also has an introduction; it is just part
of Sankara bhagavatpAda's style
of writing commentaries. His introduction to the bRhadAraNyaka bhAshya is
a highly important one too. He has provided an even longer introduction to
the gItA bhAshya and has not provided any commentary on the entire
first chapter of the gItA.
> Yes, shankara has written introduction to even each & every chapter in
geeta & adhikaraNa in sUtra and we do study those introductions in our
One could well hold that everything in the prasthAna trayI bhAshyas needs
to be understood with respect to the
introduction on the gItAbhAshya or the bRhadAraNyaka bhAshya. This kind of
argument ultimately goes nowhere and it would be better if we drop it and
move on to more constructive studies of the texts.
> again, I am failed to grasp your line of argument here...prabhuji, do
you think adhyAsa bhAshya is not the right source to understand shankara's
position on adhyAsa/avidyA?? When shankara dedicated this introduction
exclusively to explain this very topic, why there is any need to search
for some special & superficial meaning to this term?? If at all the term
avidyA needs more stretched meaning like upAdAna kAraNa, mUlAvidyA,
brahmAbhinna, jadAtmika, jnAna virOdhi, positive entity etc. shankara
would have incorporated those meanings in this very introduction
itself..is it not?? because, this is exactly where he is clearly &
categorically clarifying his position on avidyA OR adhyAsa.
> This is my last mail to you on this thread prabhuji...As I said above,
I donot want to be argumentative with you anymore.
Your humble servant
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
ps. In previous posts, I have provided ample material clarifying my
and my problems with your positions. I have not merely given you a
and I don't think it is right for you to claim so.
> I accept my fault prabhuji..pls. forgive me.
Re: the yAvad adhikAra sUtra, I have not found the time yet to discuss it
with the detail that it needs. I
had hoped to start over the weekend, but couldn't.
> Kindly take your time prabhuji, I am not in a hurry..I know how
difficult it is to concentrate on vedAnta being a samsAri..saMsAra ghOra
gahana jagadeesha raksha, prays advaitAchArya.
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