[Advaita-l] Conversion story
satisharigela at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 4 02:01:28 CDT 2009
>It may have more strength in terms of acceptance but it has no mention
>whatsoever of person's spiritual progress, AFAIK. There are
>umpteen things that the shAstras suggest that a person "may" do in
>terms of eligibility; I see it is an allowance.
So the implication of your statement is that following the shAstra need not necessarily give "spiritual progress" - 1
>I can't muddle up even if I wanted to, because I don't even know what
>are the shAstric rules for non-varNa people, (that is, as you
>said non-Indians without varNa!).
the shrIvidyArNava says that even a chANDAla can be given dIkSha if he qualifies.
The qualifications being a list of traits which among othe rthings include "satya, ahiMsa, brahmacharya, interest in studying teh shAstra-s etc etc..
Likewise the yoginI tantra says that non-indians can be initiated too when divine qualities are found in them. So these would be yama-s, niyama-s etc.
>I still hold on to HH's words on
>spiritual progress. If it hinders spiritual progress for the person
>being converted, I will still lean towards not converting, even if
>Manu approved it. Again, approval doesn't mean spiritual progress.
So your only concern is "spiritual progress" - 2
>Were these Indian swamis or westerners? The former is besides the
>point. If its the latter case, then the person who became a
>sannyAsin will need to have converted to Hinduism and then become a
>sannyAsin (hopefully as per the daSanAmi saMpradAya to be
>valid for this thread).
Sanyasis are not the only ones I had in mind. There are house-holders too.
Why this fixation with becoming a sanyasin? For example, I would never want to become a sanyasin..but there are tons of spiritual practices that I can follow or in some cases required to follow.
>No not totally, because while you talk of geographical changes that
>may not have anything to do with a person's spiritual progress, I
>was just following HH's words that religion changes/ conversions will
>hinder spiritual progress.
"Spiritual progress" again. -3
So it looks like this is what you are concerned about..spiritual progress..not necessarily everybody's concern.
So what exactly are AchArya-s words? AchArya might have used a sanskirt word for this?
Can you define what exactly you mean by this "spiritual progress"?
**In conclusion, it seems that it is absolutely alright for Westerners and others to convert to Hinduism since there is nothing against this shift. This is supported by the Agama-s specifically mentioning dIkSha to all eligible(criteria mentioned above) candidates.
--Which is my primary concern and question in the begining of this thread--
They(Agama and smriti) are explicit that a varNa tag is not required(for non-Indians) to be a Hindu**
There seems to be some doubt about this so called "spiritual progress", which probably our friend will explain what it is. But it is shown that this "spiritual progress" need not come in the way of practicing Hindu rituals.
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