[Advaita-l] Pancikarana vs. Trivrtkarana (was Re: Dr Mani Dravid)
bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Tue Apr 14 06:18:50 CDT 2009
sAshtAnga praNAms Sri Vidya prabhuji
You don't need to look too far to see how derogatory exchanges can
happen between two camps in the same sampradAya. Why should
we think that human beings were any different five or ten centuries
ago?!! And if one or two authors of texts traded barbed comments,
it is unwarranted to paint all other later advaita AcAryas with the
> Yes prabhuji, you are right...if the mutual exchanges of derogatory
remarks is an age old practice while doing siddhAnta pratipAdana in
saMpradAya, why people are making it a big issue when some Acharya in
saMpradAya inadvertently making some passing casual remark on some previous
AchArya-s?? I am not able to understand..We have generously allowed &
accepted previous Acharyas' 'below belt comments' as a part of debate (I
read in some book one AchArya belongs to bhAmati called vivaraNa
explanation of siddhAnta as 'gArdabha gaana') but when it comes to recent
Acharya-s casual comment, we are not in a position to digest it as a part
of debate!! what would be the reason for it prabhuji?? Kindly dont think
I am trying to justify some relevent issue here..it is only my general
trivRtkaraNa is described in chAndogya upanishad, in the sadvidyA
section. Here, tejas, ApaH and annam are born out of advitIya sat.
These are three of the elements - agni, ApaH and pRthvI -
devatA ... ... tAsaM trivRtaM trivRtam ekaikAm akarot...
pancIkaraNa is described for all five elements, AkASa, vAyu, agni,
ApaH and pRthvi - pancAnAM bhUtAnAm ekaikaM dvidhA vibhajya
svArdha-bhAgaM vihAya ardhabhAgaM punaS caturdhA vibhajya
itareshu yojite pancIkaraNam.
> thanks for your kind clarification prabhuji...We have the commentary on
the paNchikaraNa in the name of Sri sureshwarAchArya...(savArtika
paNchikaraNa / mAnasOllAsa ) But sofar I've not read about trivRtkaraNa in
What are the implications and why is it necessary to investigate this?
Why would favoring one or the other help or hamper in brahmajijnAsA?
Well, to answer this with a rhetorical question, why does brahmasUtra
have a discussion of sRshTi-krama, starting with the viyad adhikaraNa?
Why does Sankara bhagavatpAda further spend a lot of discussion in the
bhAshya, instead of merely dismissing it all with one or two sentences?
> Dont you think prabhuji we have to understand all these srushti krama
based on ultimatum issued by gaudapAdAchArya?? i.e. there is neither
creation nor dissolution (na nirOdhO na chOtpattiH)...I think shruti itself
does not talk about srushti-krama per se in a systamatic manner...The
objective behind the explanation of srushti-krama is something different
from accounting the 'correct' and systamatic method of creation in
shruti-s..If we see srushti krama in shruti, sometimes it sounds too funny,
for example in mundaka we have the maNtra that says : brahman becomes 'fat'
in the tapas of brooding and from it is born food (avyAkruta) etc. :-))
IMHO, we cannot take all these maNtra-s literally and construct theories on
that, I think the same rule applies to our elaborated discussion on
paNchikaraNa & trivRtkaraNa as well..Shankara observes in sUtra bhAshya
(1-4-14) that the creation which is taught in various ways by means of
illustrations like that of clay, metal and sparks is only a 'device' for
the purpose of leading the mind to the truth, but in reality there is no
diversity on any accout...If paNchikaraNa & trivRtkaraNa both are just
devices for something else, why we should scratch our heads about whether
it is three elements 'device' first or five elements device prabhuji??
Shankara explains this further beautifully in mAndukya kArikA bhAshya
(3-15) that 'sarva srushti prakAraH jIvaparamAtmaikatvabuddhyavatArAya
upAyaH .......na hi anyaprayOjanatvaM saMvAdOtpatti shruteenAm shakyaM
kalpayitum...and concludes that : tasmAt utpatyAdi shrutayaH
AtmaikatvabhuddhyavatArAyaiva na anyArthAH kalpayituM shakyAH..
Kindly dont think I am trying to curb your goodself's exchanges with Sri
Devanathan prabhuji on srushti-krama, but I humbly think it is too mundane
an effort to stick to some numbers (three or five ) & establish the same
from shruti when shruti itself trying to tell something else through these
numbers..Kindly pardon me & correct me if I said anything wrong here.
Your humble servant
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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