[Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt
srikrishna_ghadiyaram at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 18 12:44:19 CDT 2008
It is silly to assume that learning Sanskrit is the minimum requirement to know what is said in the Veda or to know the meaning and purpose of the rituals performed.
Do you see all the Math people conversing in Sanskrit, even among themselves?
It is even sillier to assume that all the Maths concur on the idea and purpose for not-translating the Vedic books. They have not come together on one purpose of agreement to respect each other's opinion and make a common effort to propagate Sankara Vedanta. Yes, they do propagate within their own whimsical ideology and circles. They keep giving general lectures on puja worship which are later day inventions of Vedic period.
The recent Kanchi acharya issue is a testimony to the fact of how much of approval rating (?) they have among masses. One may attribute all of this to the political problem. But, this also shows how much disconnected they are from the people. Politicians are people too!
I do not know in which Veda books it is said that a sanyasi must do 'social work'.
Many Brahmanas have shamelessly taken to tasks other than simplicity, study, truth, charity, ritual and contemplation, and good will for all. No Math is able to make the followers of those Math to stick to their Brahmana dharma. Most people go for money earning jobs in society, and do not even perform their Brahmana dharma even as an additional chore. There is a huge disagreement on the definition of Brahmana itself. Some say things have changed in the medival times. I am not an expert in this area.
As per the tradition, as some say, Upanishads have to be studied by the renunciate. How many renunciates are here on this list that are studying Upanishads from their gurus?
Just because their depth of Sanskrit scholarship takes them only to the level of Upanishad commentaries, and they do not have the guts to study and practice the other rituals mentioned in the earlier portions of the texts, having taken to other studies and jobs, utterly disregard others rights to know Veda in the medium of their understanding.
Not everyone is interested in knowing the meaning of the Veda. Only the well meaning care to enquire. If only the resources are available, some one will be motivated to go further. Who knows they may learn Sanskrit as they feel its necessecity.
I personally feel that there are less competent people who can properly explain the Vedic texts. Just becasue there are not many people interested in reading this kind of books, translators are not coming forward. I am confident, there are many greedy Brahmanas and Sanskrit scholars who will translate, if there is money and recognition. But, where are the real practitioners, compasionate people, who can write with their own experience?
--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna <puttakrishna at verizon.net> wrote:
From: Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna <puttakrishna at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt
To: "'Siva Senani Nori'" <sivasenani at yahoo.com>, "'A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta'" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:23 AM
Sri shiva Senani,
VERY WELL SAID!!! Cannot disagree with you a bit!
There is a qualification (pre-requisite) that is needed for learning
Any discipline - science, art or religion. Learning Sanskrit is the
pre-requisite for learning our Veda (unfortunately I am not versed in
Sanskrit either). As you rightly pointed out, until we do that, we have the
word of our elders. After all, this can't be any worse than the improperly
translated public domain information. This is the reason why Krishna ordered
"idam te nAtapaskAya nAbhaktAya kadAchana
na chAshushruShave vAchyam na cha mAm yO abhyasUyati" - (18-67).
The four qualifications Krishna is prescribing for learning the science of
Liberation(which applies for learning any discipline for that matter) are
1) austerity -preparing the mind for the receipt of the knowledge
2) Devotion - This also translates to shradDha; without faith, there is
scope for misuse of the knowledge.
3) Service to elders and teacher
4) Regard for the Lord.
Needless to say learning Sanskrit is the austerity required for studying
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On Behalf Of Siva
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:57 AM
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Sankara Mutt
> Sri Narayan Iyer
> > My question basically arises due to non-availability of translation
> > samhitas, aranyakas etc. The only translated versions available are
> > scholars and the translation leaves much to be desired. Can Sankara
> > something about it.
> In this Google Age, meta-knowledge is everything; knowledge is a lowly
> 'acquirable' commodity; we expect to know everything about
> instant. So, why not Vedas? For the simple reason that, they ought not to
> translated or made available to all and sundry.
> For those who have the eligiblity and duty to learn the Vedas, the proper
> learn the Vedas is in person from a teacher. After mastering the corpus,
> of meditation upon the meaning is mandated along with daily recital of
> portion of the corpus and regular practices involving the corpus.
> having seen the face of one's grandson, one ought to give up the
> or less, except offering three handfuls of water to the Sun thrice a day,
> explore the Ultimate. Thereafter with a burning desire to know the
> ought to give up everything in life and pursue the Ultimate.
> That is the way Vedas are meant to be learnt. That is the way, the Sankara
> arrange for teaching the Vedas. They believe in this ardently and do not
> a translation is needed (If you are a believer, you would not ask for one;
> you are not, well, thank you for your interest as an anthropologist in
> more about our tribal ways, but we are not interested; if you want
to learn our
> language and translate yourselves, so be it). For those, who want to know
> essence of Vedas, but can't learn the Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharata and
> Puranas are available. They can be translated; they have been translated;
> available; and we have the word of our elders - who have no motive to
> us - that they contain the essence of the way of life taught in the
> Now, you may ask, as to what all of us do on this list. Very orthodox
> freely translate portions of the Veda, and cite numerous sources where
> translations are available. Is this not wrong? Definitely, it is against
> practice of our elders. If the Vedas are supposed to be secret, the
> are more secret than that, guhyaati guhyam . Well, the behaviour on
> is less than perfect, but one tends to get less and less imperfect, as one
> travels in this path.
> I can speak from experience. My grandfather was a very learned scholar,
> critic and was instrumental in the development of the modern Telugu
> through the institution of 'Sahiti Samiti'. My uncles set up a
> memory to mainly promote Telugu literature. One of the first projects I
> the trust, about ten years ago, was a reasonably thought-through project
> translating the Vedas - complete with budget, confirmed contributors etc.
> a strong rebuttal from my uncle with a stern warning not to behave above
> In a way, my education also started on that day. Ten years down the road,
> some idea as to why such a thing is not done.
> Sir, the secret of Vedas, that so intrigued Dara Shikoh, can be stated in
> sentences. This world is unreal; Brahman alone is real; the Atman is the
> Brahman. Everything else in the vedas is to to elaborate, explain and
> one to realise, this truth. One more thing. Claims such as the above were
> made lightly by our ancestors. So every syllable was shown to serve one of
> stated purposes by the commentators / critics.
> Now that the secret essence is out of the bag, the only remaining purpose
> secondary: to explain, elaborate and prepare. The parts that explain,
> and discuss - the Upanishads - have been translated and extensively
> upon. An English translation of the part that prepares - the karma kanda -
> fairly useless in achieving its purpose. The purpose - of preparation - is
> served only when the corpus is approached with great reverence. You
> repeat thousands of times the phrase "asau aaditya brahma" and
> believing that the Sun is Brahman. Then you start wondering why the Sun
> Brahman and you will arrive at the law of conservation of mass-energy,
> you realise the Brahman in the annamaya koSa. Then like Indra or Bhrigu,
> reflect, and realise that it cannot be so; so you meditate further and
> the Brahman in the praaNamaya koSa. And so on. I might be off the mark in
> speculation, but observe the elders:
> they do not even open the cover of a Ramayana or Mahabharata or Bhagavata
> without first bowing to the god on the cover and ensuring that they are in
> clean state. I heard of a project of translating some work from Sanskrit
> Telugu commissioned (~ 120 years back) by a Madras based publisher,
> Sastrulu and Sons; the commissioned scholars used to start work more or
> dawn, would work studiously till a late lunch and then stop. They would
> back the next day at dawn again. Sacred work was not done after meals.
> being the reverence for Ramayana etc., one can only imagine what is the
> respect towards Vedas.
> Once one has it, the question of translation does not arise.
> To sum, the Vedas are not translated because they would serve no useful
> in translation.
>  Why are the Upanishads very secret? The secret teaching - that
> is Real, that you are That, that the world is not real - is prone to
> mis-interpretation and consequent misfortunes (I am Brahman, what I do is
> dharma, so I will behave selfishly - Brahman itself is this selfishness
> - and with absolute recklessness... this kind of thinking and consequent
> misdeeds). I would want to add "fear of ridicule" as another
> mature, calm, self-restrained ancestors would not have minded ridicule, I
> they would merely have wanted to avoid misfortune for the fallen (from the
> Righteous path).
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