[Advaita-l] What is the meaning of illusion (according toadvaita, obviously)?
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Mon Dec 29 07:45:34 CST 2008
Vishyji - PraNAms
--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com> wrote:
That is to say, that He is all, the creator and the creation (the subject and object as well as the activity of creation too.... Right??
KS: Yes - From the point of absolute truth - That is what Brahman means - infinite and undifferentiated since there are no parts. If one sees then what is seen is mithyaa only.
Thats what I mean by " Universal Consciouness"...agree? The one which is beginningless, endless, without form or attributes..... You , me, everything including the earth , the sun and all the stars are just temprary forms within, thats is all inclusive.
KS - that should be the correct understanding - if Brahman means what the scripture says - existence-consciousness-limitless - That knowledge comes from Scriptures not by logic or by perception.
In this way, Is it not wrong to personify " God" and say he is the creator , when the creator and cration is one and same withour any 'second'. Is it not the core of Advaita??
KS - It is not wrong - The discussion goes from dvaita to advaita - The philosophy is called advaita not monism - it is negation of the duality since duality is what we experience, the moment I get up from bed until I go to deep sleep state. All the suffering is due to dvaita. Hence Vedanta uses - adhyaaropa apavaada - Personified God is required for yoga - Karma yoga is required for purification of the mind - For karma cannot become a yoga unless there is Iswraarpita buddhi and prasaada buddhi - that requires personified God. Bhakti and upaasana require God separate from oneself - Until the mind is mature enough - The scripture itself advises to drop those to go to the next step - tad eva brahma tvam viddhi nedam yadidam upaasate - that alone is Brahman not this that you are worshiping - that teaching comes or appreciated only when the mind is pure or becomes pure by karma, bhakti and jnaana yoga.
If so, there is nothing to know, nothing to desire, nothing to achieve, nothing to gain or loose, nothing to do or not to do , but just to witness everything !!! ( As Ashtawakra says to Janaka and Janaka realises)
KS: One has to be careful - It becomes a reckless teaching if one does not understand from what reference the statements are valid - or to whom it is made. If you are in the same mental state as Janaka you would have also realized by reading that statement. From Brahman point there is nothing other than Brahman which is sat-chit-ananda. As long as I consider myself as jiiva- then all the duality sinks in - jiiva-jagat-Iswara differences exist. That they are all one only from the point of substantive. As Ramana said - if you think you have a body then Iswara has the body that is separate from you.
If you can be witnessing consciousness all the time - my hearty congratulations to you. Remember witnessing consciousness involves something to witness - saakshyam for saakshii - There is inherent duality in being saakshii. Realization is to recognize that saakshyam is not separate from saakshii too. Then only your last statements have a meaning. Until then it is understanding that one has to attain. By repeating 'who am I? Who am I? nothing will happen. If I do not know what is gravitational force and by repeating What is gravitational force? as japa I will still remain as ignorant of what that is - only way to find out is to go and learn what it is. Hence who am I? is an inquiry to find out - How am I going to find out who am I - That is the reason why Vedanta vichaara is required and Scriptures say it is easy to say that everything is Brahman - but to assimilate that knowledge or internalize that knowledge one has to do shravanam, mananam and
nidhidhyaasanam - there is no other short cut for that. One's vaasanaas will propel you back to duality and samsaara unless one has to go methodically first by purifying the mind and slowly shift one's attention to assimilate the teaching. Otherwise people will say I have experienced or realized who am I on that day - It is not experience but understanding who that I am is. I do not understand one day and become ignorant the next day - Understanding has to sink in - Even Bhagavan Ramana's teaching has to be correctly understood.
More information about the Advaita-l mailing list